Return-Path: Delivered-To: craig@sbc-85.com Received: from gator4254.hostgator.com by gator4254.hostgator.com with LMTP id QGxbBw2svWaTkQEAcizydQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 02:19:41 -0500 Return-path: Envelope-to: craig@sbc-85.com Delivery-date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 02:19:41 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-f43.google.com ([209.85.128.43]:43010) by gator4254.hostgator.com with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.96.2) (envelope-from ) id 1seUlo-000RTI-1L for craig@sbc-85.com; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 02:19:41 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-f43.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-428f5c0833bso9072185e9.0 for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 00:19:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1723706369; x=1724311169; darn=sbc-85.com; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wYYWpwZKNotc5u8yEFWUdwtMFA4v19pLsT08adyOoZg=; b=Yw7/ksRtJCF2JoRT0p2vrlIpKlhI2yliDfGPfrNXvtxJhgLzKXC5X6iaeA2INR9Qa5 LqqK3765/elgOB72q2KeGb2dOEchz4yIFgm7mKvyghwENyhpMUZNOQA3N0Sj2XiqviVG bYy21uivsf8qai21seZK08yPx4RN6aV81AF3aElP1ZGXlfacFl74ewnrECwn3lAtm1p1 9MLwAdqF/nEfIOqpeDqlcVsZptpWmzJTatZXztVW3F19HP0ALKav0PblB4PT50ABAdR8 3tbJ9dv80zINf8nkGioZiSANdKDRdnAQKm2e2DnPTkJlZhZmag6OehzQIrjF8u3IFA7y +Lfw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1723706369; x=1724311169; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wYYWpwZKNotc5u8yEFWUdwtMFA4v19pLsT08adyOoZg=; b=OgkCvK6/Ny05Hn15uYpPx2n1SWPutSPSHpgdl7BfSjdXggczmZx7pSnI7yRmYUh/PN HaRJLT8Mydm9fHxhQii4SD4bcfZ3aJdeywDC0LCmhUNfLQ44PtyTn5351QhsYahPW/GQ 92DEO4BSZFXfGU5PpV4gocKDuqExUdb9CUyrfRt4JoDBDA2GSj+YdCa6Eoj6GHuZr0Nz eY6k8ycyyjsLP4DwkD0K7bJ3ELfJ0ydcggDfZ+Qg6H8In0TNJ1gP8c7K2CY5Pmy84h4O l36sDmi6nCe6Rh/ze7UTmgzbQQg1YY/c2B+Jf7IwqkbJ4c1G/Pv1c42Quaoy7Y6cPx+G JgOA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwbnnYTpr+g22h7pJYYfkAymZhDalcXyedSMo+/JLQqrfoaB8p/ 05lewJVRaZBKae3cppiMUJAo6+vEDsgCqw0K7B5+FGmH9+9Kgfi1/XlAyg6Q4sIvO0VuLs+UBIC r4m98JH1wbzUQVow3mh1ymtAzRW+B6Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHZ4eRMbOoxvCZHDaS8gHeYnDBioNfusNL7KFF7wFYWCA/d0fOihsBaC4GO+6q2JmNokJzGqR702fqBWHE7JlY= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:49c9:0:b0:363:ac4d:c44f with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-37186bcb244mr1423577f8f.17.1723706368073; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 00:19:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <16239549-5D11-432B-B465-D9C19413D8DF@sbc-85.com> <001c01daecdf$40be0cb0$c23a2610$@sbc-85.com> <012101daeeb4$0ec7a5a0$2c56f0e0$@sbc-85.com> In-Reply-To: <012101daeeb4$0ec7a5a0$2c56f0e0$@sbc-85.com> From: Jon Hales Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 08:19:17 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Card guided To: craig@sbc-85.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c42819061fb3a9ec" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 X-Spam-Score: -38 X-Spam-Bar: --- X-Spam-Flag: NO --000000000000c42819061fb3a9ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Craig Thank you for your message. I appreciate your commitment to making the card cage work as well as possible. I have paid for the parts ordered from Anchor. I'm impressed with their service, having been warned that the tantalum caps have short leads and with queries asking me to confirm some details. Regards Jon On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 at 02:40, wrote: > Hi Jon, > > > > I will look for the anchor order and look at the capacitors and send you = a > photo to see if they are what you are expecting. > > > > I have not even started looking for components for the I/O board or learn > much about the UART for that matter. > > > > Have made a few additions to the card cage, added a top for cooling and > some optional spacers because the card guides tend to splay out when > lifting/moving the whole thing since they are each just attached to the > backplane and it bends a bit. The parts weigh next to nothing so when it > come time to ship we will certainly be by volume. > > > > I will send you some photos in the next couple of days. > > > > Regards > > craig > > > > *From:* Jon Hales > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 14, 2024 3:21 AM > *To:* craig@sbc-85.com > *Subject:* Re: Card guided > > > > Hi Craig > > > > I'm attaching the order I have sent today to Alicia at Anchor Electronics= , > with a request that the package is to be shipped to you. Hopefully, I hav= e > been clear enough in describing the items. > > > > Some of the parts are over-ordered, as I would like to hold a few spares. > I appreciate your recent comments on selection of the tantalum caps for t= he > two 4K RAM boards - perhaps when the parts arrive you can advise whether > the ones from Anchor are OK. If these would be best with a plastic sleeve= , > I can improvise a suitable arrangement. > > > > One of the parts that I'm so far unable to locate is the 4.9562 MHz > crystal at Y1 on the I/O board - have you any thoughts about a solution? > > > > Otherwise, the assembly is going well - with turned sockets for all ICs. = I > have your v1.0 schematic for the PROM board, which shows the connections = to > TP2, so that's the way I intend to go, with 1702Aa available for later us= e. > > > > Regards > > > > Jon > > > > On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 at 18:44, wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > > > Yes, the v1.0 of the prom board has TP2 for the EPROM cheater. It plugs > into a socket to pick up the data and addresses and then uses TP2 for > decoding. You can do the same on a v0.9 board by patching the TP2 > contacts. Just use machined contact socket in the PROM board and matchin= g > machined adapter pins in the cheater board. It will save you a lot of wo= rk > programming 1702s during development. > > > > As for the bulk capacitors on the RAM, I am not too picky about the value > but going forward I need to at least get the silkscreen and documentation > all to match the original. Same with decoupling capacitors actually, an > assortment of values certainly doesn=E2=80=99t hurt anything. > > > > Some of the newer / cheaper tantalum axials are the bullet version. The > original ones with the plastic sleeve were generally mil spec and then th= e > bullet ones with the over-molding came along and I am not sure if they we= re > still mil spec or if they were more consumer grade. I am not sure if the > ones from anchor are the bullet version or original version. To some > extent, intel used both but at least initially they used the mil spec > versions like we have been looking at. The ones from Elliot looked like > the original mil spec version. > > > > Regards > > craig > > > > *From:* Jon Hales > *Sent:* Saturday, August 10, 2024 12:51 PM > *To:* SBC-85 > *Subject:* Re: Card guided > > > > Hi Craig > > > > Thank you for the message received yesterday. In any event, I have > promised to cover your costs for materials. I would probably ask you to > send both sets of parts, but this could be influenced by the size and > weight of the package. > > > > Looking again at your photographs of the boards, I notice that v1.0 of th= e > PROM board has TP2 which isn't present on the v0.9 boards I have. I had > assumed the 2732 adapter would be installed in one of the 1702A sockets, > but that may not be your design. I'm interested in being able to avoid th= e > need to handle programming of 1702As during development, although I may > well want to do this at some stage. I have a copy of the ('official'?) v4 > firmware posted by Mattis Lind based on the PROMs in his Intellec - which= I > believe includes a monitor. > > > > One of the photos shows your mostly-populated imm6-28 4K RAM - with a > number of different values for the capacitors you had fitted at that stag= e. > This supports your recent comment that the values are not critical. I'll > probably aim to find suitable 2.7uF parts for historical accuracy. > > > > I anticipate that I'll be asking Anchor to post a small package of parts > to you for sending with the card cage, including the 2.7uF 30v tantalum > axial capacitors at 30 cents each (on page 13 of July 2024 list). I'll co= py > the list of items to you in advance. > > > > Regards > > > > Jon > > > > On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 at 23:11, SBC-85 wrote: > > Hi Jon > > Minor changes, mostly cosmetic but I am printing a new set. If you want > two sets you can have this version also. > > > > Basically the patch i mentioned when i sent the adapter board is built > into another revision. It has been do long since i did that, I don=E2=80= =99t > remember if I found any problems with it or not. Basically, I got tired o= f > programming 1702s when writing firmware > > > > The adapter board plugs onto the test pins that I brought to the edge. No= t > authentic, but one could argue it is what Intel would have wanted if the > EPROM were available. If I ever release these intellect boards, I was not > planning to release this alternate purpose or the adapter. If you don= =E2=80=99t > have the schematics for this version of the PROM board I can send them ov= er > so you can see how it works. > > > > The last couple of slots do not have sockets installed, so I just use the= m > for card storage. It is the 8080 cpu board. > > > > Let me know if you are sending any parts my way for forwarding. > > > > On Aug 9, 2024, at 1:32=E2=80=AFPM, Jon Hales wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > > Hi Craig > > > > I don't see problems with the card guides. The result looks fine for my > purposes. > > > > I'm intrigued with the 2732 adapter providing a single-chip solution to > the PROM board - and clear for access. I shall be interested to see detai= ls > when you are ready (just to mention you included one of these in the box > with the other parts). > > > > It seems unclear which card you have in the last slot - I assume not the > I/O board as I don't see the pins of ribbon cable connectors. > > > > I have looked at my IPB - the caps (on the power rails) are 22uF 15v 10% > with Kemet branding - so a different part, although visually similar. No > additional clues. > > > > I have started to look at the Anchor price list - it would be good to be > able to fill some of the remaining gaps if they have the parts. > > > > Regards > > > > Jon > > > > On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 at 21:06, SBC-85 wrote: > > Test fitting the card guides. > Fits OK, but correcting a few minor mistakes and then will print a set fo= r > you. > > --000000000000c42819061fb3a9ec Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Craig

Thank you for your message. I = appreciate your commitment to making the card cage work as well as possible= .

I have paid for the parts ordered from Anchor. I= 'm impressed with their service, having been warned that the tantalum c= aps have short leads and with queries asking me to confirm some details.

Regards

Jon

=
On Thu, 15= Aug 2024 at 02:40, <craig@sbc-85.co= m> wrote:

Hi Jon,

=C2=A0

I wil= l look for the anchor order and look at the capacitors and send you a photo= to see if they are what you are expecting.

=C2=A0<= /p>

I have not even st= arted looking for components for the I/O board or learn much about the UART= for that matter.

=C2=A0

= Have made a few additions to the card cage, = added a top for cooling and some optional spacers because the card guides t= end to splay out when lifting/moving the whole thing since they are each ju= st attached to the backplane and it bends a bit.=C2=A0 The parts weigh next= to nothing so when it come time to ship we will certainly be by volume.=

=C2=A0

I will send you some photos in the next couple of days.

=C2=A0

Regards

craig

=C2=A0

From: Jon Hales <jonhales@gmail.com>=
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2024 3:21 AM
To: craig@sbc-85.com
S= ubject: Re: Card guided

=C2=A0

Hi Craig

=C2=A0

I'm attaching the order I have sent today to Alicia= at Anchor Electronics, with a request that the package is to be shipped to= you. Hopefully, I have been clear enough in describing the items.

=C2=A0

Some of the parts are over-ordered, as I would li= ke to hold a few spares. I appreciate your recent comments on selection of = the tantalum caps for the two 4K RAM boards - perhaps when the parts arrive= you can advise whether the ones from Anchor are OK. If these would be best= with a plastic sleeve, I can improvise a suitable arrangement.

=C2=A0

=

One of the parts that I'm so far unable to locat= e is the 4.9562 MHz crystal at Y1 on the I/O board - have you any thoughts = about a solution?

=C2=A0

Otherwise, the assembly= is going well - with turned sockets for all ICs. I have your v1.0 schemati= c for the PROM board, which shows the connections to TP2, so that's the= way I intend to go, with 1702Aa available for later use.

=

=C2=A0

Regards

=C2=A0

Jon

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 at 18:44, <craig@sbc-85.com> wrote:

Hi Jon,

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes, the v1.0 of the p= rom board has TP2 for the EPROM cheater.=C2=A0 It plugs into a socket to pi= ck up the data and addresses and then uses TP2 for decoding.=C2=A0 You can = do the same on a v0.9 board by patching the TP2 contacts.=C2=A0 Just use ma= chined contact socket in the PROM board and matching machined adapter pins = in the cheater board.=C2=A0 It will save you a lot of work programming 1702= s during development.

=C2=A0

As for the bulk capacitors on the RAM, I= am not too picky about the value but going forward I need to at least get = the silkscreen and documentation all to match the original. Same with decou= pling capacitors actually, an assortment of values certainly doesn=E2=80=99= t hurt anything.

=C2=A0

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Some of the newer / cheaper tantalum axials a= re the bullet version.=C2=A0 The original ones with the plastic sleeve were= generally mil spec and then the bullet ones with the over-molding came alo= ng and I am not sure if they were still mil spec or if they were more consu= mer grade.=C2=A0 I am not sure if the ones from anchor are the bullet versi= on or original version.=C2=A0 To some extent, intel used both but at least = initially they used the mil spec versions like we have been looking at.=C2= =A0 The ones from Elliot looked like the original mil spec version.<= u>

=C2= =A0

Regards

craig

=C2=A0

From: Jon Hales <jonhales@gmail.com>= ;
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2024 12:51 PM
To: SBC-85 = <craig@sbc-85.com<= /a>>
Subject: Re: Card guided

=C2=A0

Hi= Craig

=C2=A0

Thank you for the message received yeste= rday. In any event, I have promised to cover your costs for materials. I wo= uld probably ask you to send both sets of parts, but this could be influenc= ed by the size and weight of the package.

=C2=A0

Looking again at your photographs of the boards, I notice that v1.0 of the= PROM board has TP2 which isn't present on the v0.9 boards I have. I ha= d assumed the 2732 adapter would be installed in one of the 1702A sockets, = but that may not be your design. I'm interested in being able to avoid = the need to handle programming of 1702As during development, although I may= well want to do this at some stage. I have a copy of the ('official= 9;?) v4 firmware posted by Mattis Lind based on the PROMs in his Intellec -= which I believe includes a monitor.

=C2=A0

On= e of the photos shows your mostly-populated imm6-28 4K RAM - with a number = of different values for the capacitors you had fitted at that stage. This s= upports your recent comment that the values are not critical. I'll prob= ably aim to find suitable 2.7uF parts for historical accuracy.

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">I anticipate that I'll be asking Anchor to post a= small package of parts to you for sending with the card cage, including th= e 2.7uF 30v tantalum axial capacitors at 30 cents each (on page 13 of July = 2024 list). I'll copy the list of items to you in advance.

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards

=C2=A0

Jon<= u>

=C2=A0

Hi= Jon=C2=A0

Minor changes= , mostly cosmetic but I am printing a new set. If you want two sets you can= have this version also.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Basically = the patch i mentioned when i sent the adapter board is built into another r= evision. It has been do long since i did that, I don=E2=80=99t remember if = I found any problems with it or not. Basically, I got tired of programming = 1702s when writing firmware

=C2=A0

The adapter b= oard plugs onto the test pins that I brought to the edge. Not authentic, bu= t one could argue it is what Intel would have wanted if the EPROM were avai= lable. If I ever release these intellect boards, I was not planning to rele= ase this alternate purpose or the adapter. =C2=A0 If you don=E2=80=99t have= the schematics for this version of the PROM board I can send them over so = you can see how it works.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The last = couple of slots do not have sockets installed, so I just use them for card = storage.=C2=A0 It is the 8080 cpu board.=C2=A0

=

=C2=A0

Let me know if you are sending any parts my way for forwarding.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

On Aug 9, 2024, at 1:32=E2=80=AFPM, Jon Hales <jonhales@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

=EF=BB=BF

Hi Craig

=C2=A0=

I don't see problem= s with the card guides. The result looks fine for my purposes.

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">I'm intrigued with the 2732 adapter providing a s= ingle-chip solution to the PROM board - and clear for access. I shall be in= terested to see details when you are ready (just to mention you included on= e of these in the box with the other parts).

=C2=A0

It seems unclear which card you have in the last slot - I assume not th= e I/O board as I don't see the pins of ribbon cable connectors.<= u>

=C2=A0

<= div>

I have looked at my IPB - the caps (on the power= rails) are 22uF 15v 10% with Kemet branding - so a different part, althoug= h visually similar. No additional clues.

=C2=A0

= I have started to look at the Anchor price list - it would be good to be ab= le to fill some of the remaining gaps if they have the parts.=

=C2=A0

Regards

=C2=A0

Jon

=C2=A0

On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 at 21:06, SBC-85 <craig@sbc-85.com> wro= te:

Test fitting the card guides.
Fits OK, but correcting = a few minor mistakes and then will print a set for you.

<= /blockquote>
<= /div> --000000000000c42819061fb3a9ec--