Return-Path: Delivered-To: craig@sbc-85.com Received: from gator4254.hostgator.com by gator4254.hostgator.com with LMTP id 6EmUFqhX4mUyAAYAcizydQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 01 Mar 2024 16:33:12 -0600 Return-path: Envelope-to: craig@sbc-85.com Delivery-date: Fri, 01 Mar 2024 16:33:12 -0600 Received: from mail-pl1-f171.google.com ([209.85.214.171]:42175) by gator4254.hostgator.com with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.96.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rgBRH-001qZ3-2V for craig@sbc-85.com; Fri, 01 Mar 2024 16:33:12 -0600 Received: by mail-pl1-f171.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-1dba177c596so17905085ad.0 for ; Fri, 01 Mar 2024 14:33:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1709332380; x=1709937180; darn=sbc-85.com; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YXGBvePJ3ICYKb3JhzaEJR/kEQV0X6GFt76EFjYCheU=; b=TEhbHuzfOcQu114IAwiE2xsgVv58bD2+iV8X2BaGeq/jv1DZXKyeDYm9N7SoIwOU52 /gH6PZxbLI0wCrSfllm6k1INdqxB1nvumfGSgOQJtg6k2K1wx52Si1Q9/lWHqiLSUQBc CT69hWRMvffmX6z1yTvm09Y/+qtOvoZTT7nDvOjgxrkx4E8QodPqcnYnfccD+S4x7bl3 c/lpSa4wHxEUAe/YecsSPfAuIGz+HVMbZr65DAfrBL1QsNCwFVHGwDJfFTi7xx3MCDRY KFHb8P0sYQoEhbucFe6XD5R0OEl+/v6rQsgjH7ulvk7D6bmycY+hHIcGiDd7muHtlC28 mFkw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1709332380; x=1709937180; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YXGBvePJ3ICYKb3JhzaEJR/kEQV0X6GFt76EFjYCheU=; b=nTKPrzF7Bfm7KMMpJBmIEKmp4NI7+WrqiTN6x26/zAthhlLwcvjtb2F2aih0ydbtQw xmDGvwhKR140iKNCf8k8stTH84VdxKIQdhj06stC1GWU4QCA7mi8goFwNRTcTLXw390U 11TpjWIpIMIPqNz+zNnNpZ9/DvgYJknhJ2cbdWQFJB/kLw7eZtC3j2M05qcqhUTb/eHj lkhR3hCZ0EtkIApOJ2NYmaB2X0FJzThMeyqyPDc0hmfgQh1hoXb6V2Ofcw5MNlY30Iug VASvbyopKmt76cMEBXes/Yeg6Isgk4so+nKsonRc7910Mci8uNAXgrLuKtxXdExVFUb6 Px+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz8w3dUNeNXsjwzMLiJHMBr4EIzuUUHmGV6iQ5VVKh01v/0aJDQ 6zshsEMOU7dczYg6DWMdx1jYNe8jjXFhGe+ObnS9W4AI7b3+gJJhu0hp2+Bk4EuD+C0XIyYrffP o0IRy1INJxFN8mipYLDH4XzXcV0FaC5yoTtQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEgkJKfRKHwI6DvOZqBT0b+n6ZldkFlUX6M/N8FWJoksKmVfn1ec3PfWfdFkyn7Jt6VF5XisDHhVWzhH3SvjJA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:c40f:b0:1dc:c8b8:3cb7 with SMTP id k15-20020a170902c40f00b001dcc8b83cb7mr3817041plk.13.1709332380120; Fri, 01 Mar 2024 14:33:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9A3374C1-A0C9-4206-ADD8-B05ECCB8C70A@sbc-85.com> In-Reply-To: <9A3374C1-A0C9-4206-ADD8-B05ECCB8C70A@sbc-85.com> From: Aaron J Climas Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2024 09:32:47 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: SSM VB1B To: SBC-85 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000051fe090612a0f529" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 X-Spam-Score: -1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-Spam-Flag: NO --00000000000051fe090612a0f529 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Craig. Thanks for the advice! In that case I'll get ordering, I don't know about over that way, but over here the shipping difference between ordering one large card and three large boards is relatively small ($30 to $40) So I think ordering the video board, backplane from S100 and the CPU board will be the way to go. Keep up the good work! Cheers, Aaron On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 6:03=E2=80=AFAM SBC-85 wrote: > Hi Aaron > > I need to borrow a vb1C from a buddy and see how well the blanking cleans > up the snow. If I implement that change, it would be a subtle addition an= d > the rest of the circuit /chips would be the same. Including memory > > > I tell people to never wait on me, i have more projects than time and hav= e > a number of boards from various buses that I have laid out but at waiting > to be populated and tested. > > Regards > Craig > > On Feb 29, 2024, at 2:45=E2=80=AFAM, Aaron J Climas > wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > Hi Craig. > > Thanks for taking the time to reply so quickly and with so much > information. I wasn't expecting such a comprehensive response. Or one at > all really. > > I'll join up with the group and the forum and do some research. > > I had a bit of trouble finding the CB1A+I/O on the website, but after a > bit of searching I managed to find the gerbers and have them. As for the > VB1B I don't mind particularly having to do the back porch patch, it feel= s > like it is something very much 'of the era', and I've got a couple of old > 70's CRTs that are perfect for an Apple 1 style display that would be > perfect for it. > > The only possible reason for me to hang off ordering PCBs now would be to > wait if you decide to fix the read/ write to clear up the snow. Doing tha= t > would probably allow slightly more modern SRAM to be used using the same > data lines. Although I know you do like your period IC's. > > I suspect I'll see what your decision is on the VB1B and depending on wha= t > changes you make either order the current board and the CB1A or just the > CB1A and wait. Then sell on the additional boards locally, as it doesn't > feel worth the effort sending large chunks of money to postal services. > > Your reply helped a lot, and has given me much food for thought. > > All the best, > Aaron > > On Thu, Feb 29, 2024 at 1:44=E2=80=AFPM wrote: > >> Hi Aaron, >> >> >> >> Yes, I would suggest purchasing boards directly from JLCPCB and then >> selling the extra boards to others in Australia. You may want to genera= te >> interest by posting something in the forum noting as such. There is als= o a >> S100 facebook group and you can leave comments on the videos with a simi= lar >> message. I do not think it will be difficult pawn off the extras and >> divide the total cost among the boards. >> >> >> >> Same with the 2102s and the Motorola character generator, get together >> and do a group buy and divide the shipping from the US. >> >> >> >> In the grand scheme, $10 per board (delivered) is an amazing price >> compared to what boards used to cost. >> >> >> >> I just shipped some boards to Australia, shipping was around $40 for a >> handful of boards. >> >> >> >> I do have my version of a S100 backplane, but I have recently made some >> changes to it just received them from the board house last week and need= to >> assemble and test this version. Backplane build files from others are >> available for download from s100computers.com. I have not offered my >> S100 because there are many others available and =E2=80=98me to=E2=80=99= is not really my >> thing. I only made my version since it brings out signals to test point= s >> and has easily replaceable fuses on the power rails. I may do a video o= n >> my version and see if there is enough interest to go to the trouble to m= ake >> a user=E2=80=99s manual, etc. >> >> >> >> I do not have any of the SSM I/O board reproduction gerbers. Glitchwrks >> has made the SSM i/o-2 and I was hoping he will make the i/o 4 soon so t= hat >> I don=E2=80=99t have to. The Glitch Works (glitchwrks.com) >> >> >> >> >> I am not sure if I will make any SSM RAM or EPROM reproductions. There >> are many compatible boards and the SSM memory boards are very early in t= he >> market and somewhat dated. I am not sure they even made a PROM board >> beyond the 1702A eprom. >> >> >> >> In my user=E2=80=99s manuals, I try to keep a list of change requests bu= t I never >> know when I am going to revisit a board and implement the changes. So >> there is the rub. Wait for the next version or buy in now? >> >> >> >> The CB1A + I/O is pretty mature. I have a couple bugs in the >> CB1A+Serial. You can look at the manuals for both and decide. The >> CB1A+Serial is more authentic to SSM original, but of the two I like the >> CB1A+I/O much better because I can use the ascii keyboard and the serial >> port at the same time. >> >> It will be at least another 2 weeks before I get my S100 backplane built >> and tested, and even then I have not decided if I will make that availab= le >> or even if I will test for interest. >> >> The VB1 board needs a patch for the back porch on the vertical sync as >> noted in the users manual. I expect that it will be a month before I pl= ace >> another JLCPCB order with a patched version. Today I have been wonderin= g >> if I want to go one step further and inhibit the read and write cycles t= o >> eliminate the snow that occurs when they conflict. >> >> >> >> Long story short, if you are looking for a project sooner rather than >> later, I would submit the CB1A+I/O and get that board built and sell off >> the extras. Since they are true single board computers with a serial po= rt, >> there are many hours of fun playing before you will even want a video >> board. Then in a couple of months when the CB1A starts to get boring, t= he >> next version of the VB1B will be available that you can submit to jlcpcb= . >> The CB1A by itself doesn=E2=80=99t need a backplane, just bring power in= through a >> socket on the edge connector and worry about the backplane later. >> >> >> >> I hope that helps >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> craig >> >> >> >> *From:* Aaron J Climas >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 28, 2024 5:19 PM >> *To:* 052922@sbc-85.com >> *Subject:* SSM VB1B >> >> >> >> Hi there. >> >> >> >> I've been following along with your videos on the SSM machine, and reall= y >> like the video card. I don't currently have *anything* that's S100 here,= so >> it would be an entirely new build for me. >> >> I'm Australia based and looking at JLC PCB it would be roughly AUD$50 to >> have five of those boards made up and shipped out to me. >> >> >> I'm not sure if you have the backplate gerbers available or the CPU/ I/O >> port. >> >> >> >> I was wondering what your recommendation would be, the shipping cost is >> the biggest thing for me, so would it be better to wait until you have >> finished up the SSM project and order the boards at the same time? Unles= s >> I'm misunderstanding the whole thing. >> >> >> >> I hope you're well. >> >> Cheers, >> Aaron >> >> >> >> -- >> >> *Aaron J Climas* >> M 0439 897 025 >> > > > -- > *Aaron J Climas* > M 0439 897 025 > > --=20 *Aaron J Climas* M 0439 897 025 --00000000000051fe090612a0f529 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Craig.=C2=A0

Thanks for the advice! In that case= I'll get ordering, I don't know about over that way, but over here= the shipping difference between ordering one large card and three large bo= ards is relatively small ($30 to $40) So I think ordering the video board, = backplane from S100 and the CPU board will be the way to go.=C2=A0

=
Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
Aaron

On Fri, Mar = 1, 2024 at 6:03=E2=80=AFAM SBC-85 <c= raig@sbc-85.com> wrote:
Hi= Aaron

I need to borrow a = vb1C from a buddy and see how well the blanking cleans up the snow. If I im= plement that change, it would be a subtle addition and the rest of the circ= uit /chips would be the same. Including memory=C2=A0
=

I tell people to neve= r wait on me, i have more projects than time and have a number of boards fr= om various buses that I have laid out but at waiting to be populated and te= sted.=C2=A0

Regards
<= div dir=3D"ltr">Craig

O= n Feb 29, 2024, at 2:45=E2=80=AFAM, Aaron J Climas <colonelbarker@gmail.com> wr= ote:

= =EF=BB=BF
Hi Craig.=C2=A0

Thanks for taking the time= to reply so quickly and with so much information. I wasn't expecting s= uch a comprehensive=C2=A0response. Or one at all really.=C2=A0

I'll join up with the group and the forum and do some research.= =C2=A0

I had a bit of trouble finding the CB1A+I/O= on the website, but after a bit of searching I managed to find the gerbers= and have them. As for the VB1B I don't mind particularly having to do = the back porch patch, it feels like it is something very much 'of the e= ra', and I've got a couple of old 70's CRTs that are perfect fo= r an Apple 1 style display that would be perfect for it.=C2=A0

The o= nly possible=C2=A0reason for me to hang off ordering PCBs now would be to w= ait if you decide to fix the read/ write to clear up the snow. Doing that w= ould probably allow slightly=C2=A0more modern SRAM to be used using the sam= e data lines.=C2=A0 Although I know you do like your period IC's.=C2=A0=

I suspect I'll see what your decision is on t= he VB1B and depending on what changes you make either order the current boa= rd and the CB1A or just the CB1A and wait. Then sell on the additional boar= ds locally, as it doesn't feel worth the effort sending large chunks of= money to postal services.

Your reply helped a lot, and has given me= much food for thought.=C2=A0

All the best,
Aaron

On = Thu, Feb 29, 2024 at 1:44=E2=80=AFPM <craig@sbc-85.com> wrote:

Hi Aaron,

=C2= =A0

Yes, I would suggest purchasing boards= directly from JLCPCB and then selling the extra boards to others in Austra= lia.=C2=A0 You may want to generate interest by posting something in the fo= rum noting as such.=C2=A0 There is also a S100 facebook group and you can l= eave comments on the videos with a similar message.=C2=A0 I do not think it= will be difficult pawn off the extras and divide the total cost among the = boards.

=C2=A0

Same with the 2102s and the Motorola character generato= r, get together and do a group buy and divide the shipping from the US.<= /u>

=C2=A0

In the grand scheme, $10 per board (delivered) is an amazing price= compared to what boards used to cost.

=C2=A0

I just shipped some boar= ds to Australia, shipping was around $40 for a handful of boards.=

=C2=A0

I do have my version of a S100 backplane, but I have recently made some = changes to it just received them from the board house last week and need to= assemble and test this version.=C2=A0 Backplane build files from others ar= e available for download from s100computers.com.=C2=A0 I have not offered my S100 because= there are many others available and =E2=80=98me to=E2=80=99 is not really = my thing.=C2=A0 I only made my version since it brings out signals to test = points and has easily replaceable fuses on the power rails.=C2=A0 I may do = a video on my version and see if there is enough interest to go to the trou= ble to make a user=E2=80=99s manual, etc.

=C2=A0

I do not have any of = the SSM I/O board reproduction gerbers.=C2=A0 Glitchwrks has made the SSM i= /o-2 and I was hoping he will make the i/o 4 soon so that I don=E2=80=99t h= ave to.=C2=A0 The= Glitch Works (glitchwrks.com)

= =C2=A0

I am not sure if I will make= any SSM RAM or EPROM reproductions.=C2=A0 There are many compatible boards= and the SSM memory boards are very early in the market and somewhat dated.= =C2=A0 I am not sure they even made a PROM board beyond the 1702A eprom.=

=C2=A0

In my user=E2=80=99s manuals, I try to keep a list of change requ= ests but I never know when I am going to revisit a board and implement the = changes.=C2=A0 So there is the rub.=C2=A0 Wait for the next version or buy = in now?

=C2=A0

The CB1A + I/O is pretty mature.=C2=A0 I have a couple = bugs in the CB1A+Serial. You can look at the manuals for both and decide.= =C2=A0 The CB1A+Serial is more authentic to SSM original, but of the two I = like the CB1A+I/O much better because I can use the ascii keyboard and the = serial port at the same time.

It wi= ll be at least another 2 weeks before I get my S100 backplane built and tes= ted, and even then I have not decided if I will make that available or even= if I will test for interest.

The V= B1 board needs a patch for the back porch on the vertical sync as noted in = the users manual.=C2=A0 I expect that it will be a month before I place ano= ther JLCPCB order with a patched version.=C2=A0 Today I have been wondering= if I want to go one step further and inhibit the read and write cycles to = eliminate the snow that occurs when they conflict.

=C2=A0

Long story s= hort, if you are looking for a project sooner rather than later, I would su= bmit the CB1A+I/O and get that board built and sell off the extras.=C2=A0 S= ince they are true single board computers with a serial port, there are man= y hours of fun playing before you will even want a video board.=C2=A0 Then = in a couple of months when the CB1A starts to get boring, the next version = of the VB1B will be available that you can submit to jlcpcb.=C2=A0 The CB1A= by itself doesn=E2=80=99t need a backplane, just bring power in through a = socket on the edge connector and worry about the backplane later.=

=C2=A0

I hope that helps

=C2=A0<= u>

Regards

craig

=C2=A0

From: Aaron J Climas <colonelbarker@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesd= ay, February 28, 2024 5:19 PM
To: 052922@sbc-85.com
Subject: SSM VB1B

=C2=A0

<= div>

Hi there.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I've been following along with your videos on the SSM machine, and re= ally like the video card. I don't currently have *anything* that's = S100 here, so it would be an entirely new build for me.=C2=A0

I'= m Australia based and looking at JLC PCB it would be roughly=C2=A0AUD$50 to= have five of those boards made up and shipped out to me.=C2=A0


I'm not sure if you have th= e backplate gerbers available or the CPU/ I/O port.=C2=A0

=

=C2=A0

I was wondering what your recommendation would be, the shi= pping cost is the biggest thing for me, so would it be better to wait until= you=C2=A0have finished up the SSM project and order the boards at the same= time? Unless I'm misunderstanding the whole thing.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

I hope you're well.

Cheers,
Aaron=

=C2=A0

=

--

Aaron J Climas
M 0439 897 025



--
Aaron J Climas
M 0439 897 025


--
Aaron J Climas
M 0439 897 025
--00000000000051fe090612a0f529--