Return-Path: Delivered-To: craig@sbc-85.com Received: from gator4254.hostgator.com by gator4254.hostgator.com with LMTP id 6C9EK1dg4GU12Q0AcizydQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 29 Feb 2024 04:45:43 -0600 Return-path: Envelope-to: craig@sbc-85.com Delivery-date: Thu, 29 Feb 2024 04:45:43 -0600 Received: from mail-il1-f178.google.com ([209.85.166.178]:60676) by gator4254.hostgator.com with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.96.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rfdv5-003oNm-0h for craig@sbc-85.com; Thu, 29 Feb 2024 04:45:43 -0600 Received: by mail-il1-f178.google.com with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-3657dbe2008so3631685ab.1 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 2024 02:45:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1709203532; x=1709808332; darn=sbc-85.com; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YH2+FRVHj9PSOrXltA8K4PZUAntbUGDJyyMZUpv9cKs=; b=Wfdh3ikEB9cPC69AKPk9hhRboINaY54z8OWMSkvJw8FTrIybTddupS9ZnV59CosVlV 4IxE1UkSc8O7Qwl3vLlYVbC3bLz+44iGgbFsnerNZ8expeNjFdKQ5mH+0YvNN9nYpXy+ RfBsxTxvRxdmX2/nchPj1IU71TgVrPXGk+8M1//W91dEKKpS/SwYdsA4toR6WSRVaQoF YFzaeKyL1mNyK9LF3k2pG8eNONuhWl/hyEt4/Lat7TBMCQOb1ixMBfiMNoLXqeVk+brc BAxifwqWIkEDDZrj/IBMeui8YfWMp6aJD49UvZYDxxJqf9zCTkGVKlHjftIiYAURdZpA I4Tw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1709203532; x=1709808332; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YH2+FRVHj9PSOrXltA8K4PZUAntbUGDJyyMZUpv9cKs=; b=eaiwgpuUEyE0OyFjZsTps+/9Nz/6CXiEAK7j/S+GVeUV304/KPtuZlOhlaAM/B1qcV Kp5lwgfyzM7Igu6GGcyL541bGS66hGrebD8rXuWwjBEqE7jfULdht6eyfkSCn7KQ7Uzm 1MzF4zV97ZFv5RDvUr8ndmiIHJKvuI+mS1M6pclI24REsPinOzn1kUx2jyOzj+4oc4O8 gopRW84Ah+PtnyQnJYIi8J0GMOlUYrfwxK+tWOvYMlssLZXAzZf+xJA09hO53nmBKAx6 z+PPTiJWhSeU+dLELCWotHn8IijVVNvuql5CvhUYZjp8ALquqMeruP/RuzAlOvjxlHBN sTsw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyiju0kJaYdDG4fn0B2Pp3z9EIlsVdUkErRuLtOBKEUzqZsVmP8 KscUfBcBLecTzoyrI1/VC4G90H+TkGxoiOjug952ofb+Cw/QV6LSBzW7DVpphJ6PkOSFRfN2s5o s/lbRFzTU9FGucWCq4Hxk+ZwPFHXiCqQL8Y8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHjXLcHRVgA1f+XmnF/O+oIFN+IFIcmaRGouXdi4qbUdnlLA6zdThRkxt+RHa464uKcHZFWVWIVHDKDL/xrzHs= X-Received: by 2002:a92:b708:0:b0:365:8250:f2fe with SMTP id k8-20020a92b708000000b003658250f2femr1988420ili.0.1709203531760; Thu, 29 Feb 2024 02:45:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <09e701da6ab9$3fd293f0$bf77bbd0$@sbc-85.com> In-Reply-To: <09e701da6ab9$3fd293f0$bf77bbd0$@sbc-85.com> From: Aaron J Climas Date: Thu, 29 Feb 2024 21:45:20 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: SSM VB1B To: craig@sbc-85.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005c09f4061282f586" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 X-Spam-Score: -1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-Spam-Flag: NO --0000000000005c09f4061282f586 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Craig. Thanks for taking the time to reply so quickly and with so much information. I wasn't expecting such a comprehensive response. Or one at all really. I'll join up with the group and the forum and do some research. I had a bit of trouble finding the CB1A+I/O on the website, but after a bit of searching I managed to find the gerbers and have them. As for the VB1B I don't mind particularly having to do the back porch patch, it feels like it is something very much 'of the era', and I've got a couple of old 70's CRTs that are perfect for an Apple 1 style display that would be perfect for it. The only possible reason for me to hang off ordering PCBs now would be to wait if you decide to fix the read/ write to clear up the snow. Doing that would probably allow slightly more modern SRAM to be used using the same data lines. Although I know you do like your period IC's. I suspect I'll see what your decision is on the VB1B and depending on what changes you make either order the current board and the CB1A or just the CB1A and wait. Then sell on the additional boards locally, as it doesn't feel worth the effort sending large chunks of money to postal services. Your reply helped a lot, and has given me much food for thought. All the best, Aaron On Thu, Feb 29, 2024 at 1:44=E2=80=AFPM wrote: > Hi Aaron, > > > > Yes, I would suggest purchasing boards directly from JLCPCB and then > selling the extra boards to others in Australia. You may want to generat= e > interest by posting something in the forum noting as such. There is also= a > S100 facebook group and you can leave comments on the videos with a simil= ar > message. I do not think it will be difficult pawn off the extras and > divide the total cost among the boards. > > > > Same with the 2102s and the Motorola character generator, get together an= d > do a group buy and divide the shipping from the US. > > > > In the grand scheme, $10 per board (delivered) is an amazing price > compared to what boards used to cost. > > > > I just shipped some boards to Australia, shipping was around $40 for a > handful of boards. > > > > I do have my version of a S100 backplane, but I have recently made some > changes to it just received them from the board house last week and need = to > assemble and test this version. Backplane build files from others are > available for download from s100computers.com. I have not offered my > S100 because there are many others available and =E2=80=98me to=E2=80=99 = is not really my > thing. I only made my version since it brings out signals to test points > and has easily replaceable fuses on the power rails. I may do a video on > my version and see if there is enough interest to go to the trouble to ma= ke > a user=E2=80=99s manual, etc. > > > > I do not have any of the SSM I/O board reproduction gerbers. Glitchwrks > has made the SSM i/o-2 and I was hoping he will make the i/o 4 soon so th= at > I don=E2=80=99t have to. The Glitch Works (glitchwrks.com) > > > > > I am not sure if I will make any SSM RAM or EPROM reproductions. There > are many compatible boards and the SSM memory boards are very early in th= e > market and somewhat dated. I am not sure they even made a PROM board > beyond the 1702A eprom. > > > > In my user=E2=80=99s manuals, I try to keep a list of change requests but= I never > know when I am going to revisit a board and implement the changes. So > there is the rub. Wait for the next version or buy in now? > > > > The CB1A + I/O is pretty mature. I have a couple bugs in the CB1A+Serial= . > You can look at the manuals for both and decide. The CB1A+Serial is more > authentic to SSM original, but of the two I like the CB1A+I/O much better > because I can use the ascii keyboard and the serial port at the same time= . > > It will be at least another 2 weeks before I get my S100 backplane built > and tested, and even then I have not decided if I will make that availabl= e > or even if I will test for interest. > > The VB1 board needs a patch for the back porch on the vertical sync as > noted in the users manual. I expect that it will be a month before I pla= ce > another JLCPCB order with a patched version. Today I have been wondering > if I want to go one step further and inhibit the read and write cycles to > eliminate the snow that occurs when they conflict. > > > > Long story short, if you are looking for a project sooner rather than > later, I would submit the CB1A+I/O and get that board built and sell off > the extras. Since they are true single board computers with a serial por= t, > there are many hours of fun playing before you will even want a video > board. Then in a couple of months when the CB1A starts to get boring, th= e > next version of the VB1B will be available that you can submit to jlcpcb. > The CB1A by itself doesn=E2=80=99t need a backplane, just bring power in = through a > socket on the edge connector and worry about the backplane later. > > > > I hope that helps > > > > Regards > > craig > > > > *From:* Aaron J Climas > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 28, 2024 5:19 PM > *To:* 052922@sbc-85.com > *Subject:* SSM VB1B > > > > Hi there. > > > > I've been following along with your videos on the SSM machine, and really > like the video card. I don't currently have *anything* that's S100 here, = so > it would be an entirely new build for me. > > I'm Australia based and looking at JLC PCB it would be roughly AUD$50 to > have five of those boards made up and shipped out to me. > > > I'm not sure if you have the backplate gerbers available or the CPU/ I/O > port. > > > > I was wondering what your recommendation would be, the shipping cost is > the biggest thing for me, so would it be better to wait until you have > finished up the SSM project and order the boards at the same time? Unless > I'm misunderstanding the whole thing. > > > > I hope you're well. > > Cheers, > Aaron > > > > -- > > *Aaron J Climas* > M 0439 897 025 > --=20 *Aaron J Climas* M 0439 897 025 --0000000000005c09f4061282f586 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Craig.=C2=A0

Thanks for taking the time to reply= so quickly and with so much information. I wasn't expecting such a com= prehensive=C2=A0response. Or one at all really.=C2=A0

I&= #39;ll join up with the group and the forum and do some research.=C2=A0

I had a bit of trouble finding the CB1A+I/O on the we= bsite, but after a bit of searching I managed to find the gerbers and have = them. As for the VB1B I don't mind particularly having to do the back p= orch patch, it feels like it is something very much 'of the era', a= nd I've got a couple of old 70's CRTs that are perfect for an Apple= 1 style display that would be perfect for it.=C2=A0

The only possib= le=C2=A0reason for me to hang off ordering PCBs now would be to wait if you= decide to fix the read/ write to clear up the snow. Doing that would proba= bly allow slightly=C2=A0more modern SRAM to be used using the same data lin= es.=C2=A0 Although I know you do like your period IC's.=C2=A0

I suspect I'll see what your decision is on the VB1B an= d depending on what changes you make either order the current board and the= CB1A or just the CB1A and wait. Then sell on the additional boards locally= , as it doesn't feel worth the effort sending large chunks of money to = postal services.

Your reply helped a lot, and has given me much food= for thought.=C2=A0

All the best,
Aaron

On Thu, Feb 2= 9, 2024 at 1:44=E2=80=AFPM <craig@sb= c-85.com> wrote:

Hi Aaron,

= =C2=A0

Yes, I would suggest purchas= ing boards directly from JLCPCB and then selling the extra boards to others= in Australia.=C2=A0 You may want to generate interest by posting something= in the forum noting as such.=C2=A0 There is also a S100 facebook group and= you can leave comments on the videos with a similar message.=C2=A0 I do no= t think it will be difficult pawn off the extras and divide the total cost = among the boards.

=C2=A0<= /u>

Same with the 2102s and the Motorola characte= r generator, get together and do a group buy and divide the shipping from t= he US.

=C2=A0

In the grand scheme, $10 per board (delivered) is an ama= zing price compared to what boards used to cost.

=C2=A0

I just shippe= d some boards to Australia, shipping was around $40 for a handful of boards= .

=C2=A0

I do have my version of a S100 backplane, but I have recentl= y made some changes to it just received them from the board house last week= and need to assemble and test this version.=C2=A0 Backplane build files fr= om others are available for download from s100computers.com.=C2=A0 I have not offered my S1= 00 because there are many others available and =E2=80=98me to=E2=80=99 is n= ot really my thing.=C2=A0 I only made my version since it brings out signal= s to test points and has easily replaceable fuses on the power rails.=C2=A0= I may do a video on my version and see if there is enough interest to go t= o the trouble to make a user=E2=80=99s manual, etc.

=C2=A0

I do not ha= ve any of the SSM I/O board reproduction gerbers.=C2=A0 Glitchwrks has made= the SSM i/o-2 and I was hoping he will make the i/o 4 soon so that I don= =E2=80=99t have to.=C2=A0 The Glitch Works (glitchwrks.com)

=C2=A0

I am not sure if= I will make any SSM RAM or EPROM reproductions.=C2=A0 There are many compa= tible boards and the SSM memory boards are very early in the market and som= ewhat dated.=C2=A0 I am not sure they even made a PROM board beyond the 170= 2A eprom.

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">In my user=E2=80=99s manuals, I try to keep a list of= change requests but I never know when I am going to revisit a board and im= plement the changes.=C2=A0 So there is the rub.=C2=A0 Wait for the next ver= sion or buy in now?

=C2=A0

The CB1A + I/O is pretty mature.=C2=A0 I ha= ve a couple bugs in the CB1A+Serial. You can look at the manuals for both a= nd decide.=C2=A0 The CB1A+Serial is more authentic to SSM original, but of = the two I like the CB1A+I/O much better because I can use the ascii keyboar= d and the serial port at the same time.

It will be at least another 2 weeks before I get my S100 backplane bui= lt and tested, and even then I have not decided if I will make that availab= le or even if I will test for interest.

The VB1 board needs a patch for the back porch on the vertical sync as= noted in the users manual.=C2=A0 I expect that it will be a month before I= place another JLCPCB order with a patched version.=C2=A0 Today I have been= wondering if I want to go one step further and inhibit the read and write = cycles to eliminate the snow that occurs when they conflict.<= /p>

=C2=A0

Lo= ng story short, if you are looking for a project sooner rather than later, = I would submit the CB1A+I/O and get that board built and sell off the extra= s.=C2=A0 Since they are true single board computers with a serial port, the= re are many hours of fun playing before you will even want a video board.= =C2=A0 Then in a couple of months when the CB1A starts to get boring, the n= ext version of the VB1B will be available that you can submit to jlcpcb.=C2= =A0 The CB1A by itself doesn=E2=80=99t need a backplane, just bring power i= n through a socket on the edge connector and worry about the backplane late= r.

=C2=A0

I hope that helps

=C2=A0

Regards

craig

=C2= =A0

From: Aaron J Climas <colonelbarker@gmail.com>
Sen= t: Wednesday, February 28, 2024 5:19 PM
To: 052922@sbc-85.com
Subject:<= /b> SSM VB1B

=C2=A0=

Hi there.=C2=A0

<= /div>

=C2=A0

I've been following along with your videos on the SSM m= achine, and really like the video card. I don't currently have *anythin= g* that's S100 here, so it would be an entirely new build for me.=C2=A0=

I'm Australia based and looking at JLC PCB it would be roughly= =C2=A0AUD$50 to have five of those boards made up and shipped out to me.=C2= =A0


I'm not sure= if you have the backplate gerbers available or the CPU/ I/O port.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

I was wondering what your recommendation wo= uld be, the shipping cost is the biggest thing for me, so would it be bette= r to wait until you=C2=A0have finished up the SSM project and order the boa= rds at the same time? Unless I'm misunderstanding the whole thing.=C2= =A0

=C2=A0=

I hope you're well.

Cheers= ,
Aaron

=C2=A0=

--

Aaron J Climas
M 0439 897 025



--
<= b>Aaron J Climas
M 0439 897 025
--0000000000005c09f4061282f586--