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Tue, 28 Feb 2023 02:29:57 +0000 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 02:29:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Fred van Kempen To: "craig@sbc-85.com" Message-ID: <490836865.1059725.1677551395576@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <002e01d94b17$778d4be0$66a7e3a0$@sbc-85.com> References: <1946926025.709614.1677459220583@mail.yahoo.com> <59CD2A20-90D0-4658-AC79-9AB5CC80004B@sbc-85.com> <0ac001d94b0e$84c68b90$8e53a2b0$@sbc-85.com> <832204760.1042373.1677545801270@mail.yahoo.com> <002e01d94b17$778d4be0$66a7e3a0$@sbc-85.com> Subject: Re: ping, no r0b0t MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1059724_1824712393.1677551395567" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21221 YMailNorrin Content-Length: 81498 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 X-Spam-Score: -1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-Spam-Flag: NO ------=_Part_1059724_1824712393.1677551395567 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK, no problem, just wasnt sure. What is your paypal address? --Fred On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 08:53:37 PM GMT-5, w= rote: =20 =20 =20 it lost the alignment, that is for the tin boards.=C2=A0 $3 and $5.=C2=A0 s= o two columns, one for tin and one for EING except for the boards that are = only in tin. $31 for one set of tin and $64 for one set of ENIG (except tin backplane an= d port prototyping board) total of $95 for one tin set and one gold plus 10 shipping plus paypal fee minus tindie fee. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 see spreadsheet attached. =C2=A0 thanks =C2=A0 From: Fred van Kempen =20 Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 4:57 PM To: craig@sbc-85.com Subject: Re: ping, no r0b0t =C2=A0 What are the "3" and "5" numbers?=C2=A0 Number of boards? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 07:49:34 PM GMT-5, craig@sbc-85.com wrote:=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Fred,=20 =C2=A0 here is the bare board list.=C2=A0 the backplane and port prototyping board= are only in TIN.=C2=A0 You would only need one bus monitor LED jig since i= t is not a consumable. I looked and I have never actually tested the I2C board which is why it isn= =E2=80=99t listed on tindie.=C2=A0 I am pretty sure I have some.=C2=A0 I wi= ll just toss one in and you can let me know how it goes. this would all fit in a small or medium usps flat rate box, so $10 for ship= ping. =C2=A0 if you use paypal direct w/o tindie, it saves the $5.43 and total would be = $103.23 =C2=A0 regards Craig =C2=A0 |=20 | |=20 tin |=20 enig | | |=20 backplane |=20 3 |=20 $3.00 |=20 (TIN) | |=20 SBC-85 |=20 3 |=20 $9.00 | | |=20 bus monitor |=20 5 |=20 $12.00 | | |=20 bus monitor LED jig |=20 3 | | | |=20 protoboard - bus |=20 3 |=20 $9.50 | | |=20 protoboard port |=20 3 |=20 $3.00 |=20 (TIN) | |=20 memory expansion |=20 5 |=20 $9.00 | | |=20 cassette Interface |=20 3 |=20 $9.00 | | |=20 SPIO |=20 3 |=20 $10.00 | | |=20 SPIO-I2C | | | | | |=20 31 |=20 $64.50 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |=20 $95.50 | | | |=20 shipping |=20 $10.00 | | | |=20 subtotal |=20 $105.50 | | | |=20 paypal |=20 $3.17 | | | |=20 tindie total |=20 $108.67 | | | |=20 tindie fee |=20 -$5.43 | | | |=20 no tindie total |=20 $103.23 | | |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 | |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 | |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 | |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 | |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 | |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 | |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 | |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 | |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 | |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 | |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 | |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 |=20 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: SBC-85 =20 Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2023 8:13 PM To: Fred van Kempen Subject: Re: ping, no r0b0t =C2=A0 Hi Fred, =C2=A0 To the extent possible, I have given up on surface mount. Just too small fo= r my liking. I already have to use head magnifiers most of the time. =C2=A0 You have a nice collection of boards, perhaps you will want to extend the S= BC-85 bus to include some of your own boards if you think of something that= is missing. =C2=A0People are always asking for some sort of video output o= r disk controller, but neither of those appeal to me much. =C2=A0 PALs and GALs are just more trouble than they are worth for this scale of b= oard and the user base. =C2=A0Like you said, it is one more hurdle to get o= ver and there is not an obscene amount of glue logic required. Yes, it woul= d be easy to compress more in the same size or offer more features. I just = didn=E2=80=99t want to go there. =C2=A0 I have one of those HP 8085 trainers, not a bad bit of kit actually. =C2=A0= I prefer the SDK-85 but even there the monitor could have been improved. I = run a better monitor on mine and it makes it a nice little tool. =C2=A0 As for the website, I never really intended on this to take off and Wordpre= ss was an easy way to start. I understand where you are coming from. I keep= thinking I will have the time to move over to GitHub or something similar,= but that hasn=E2=80=99t happened yet. =C2=A0I will see if I can at least c= lean it up a bit. =C2=A0 I will get these together and price out, option for one gold set if I have = them.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Let me know of any problems you find in the manuals, BOMs, or software. =C2=A0 Regards =C2=A0 Craig =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Feb 26, 2023, at 4:53 PM, Fred van Kempen wrote: =EF=BB=BF Hi! =C2=A0 See attached, forgot.. just some of the smaller ones I did over the years.= =C2=A0 I like doing PTH, as most people can (still) do that.=C2=A0 SMT makes for smaller boards and more functional= ity, but, as you know, your customers will bitch :) =C2=A0 Anyway. =C2=A0 STD is not my thing. I know about it, of course, but never did anything wit= h it.=C2=A0 For the 8bit stuff, I dont think one needs anything more than "just" the (demuxed) CPU bus- even thoug= h that somewhat locks you into that (family of) the CPU.=C2=A0 I do like how your boards use buff= ers; something (else) I missed in the Glitch stuff. =C2=A0 Now, here's a thought.=C2=A0 How come only Sergey's boards use a programmab= le device (GAL, in this case) for combining a load of the glue logic?=C2=A0 OK, yes, that makes you= dependent on another "hard" (for some) chip, but it makes things cleaner, and smaller.=C2=A0 I think th= e address decoding stuff (for the RAM and ROM selects, but also for a "block" of I/O selects), and even a lit= tle bank switcher, would be a great addition? =C2=A0 > Ordering through tindie is easy, but ordering direct and using PayPal get= s a 5% discount. I have several not-so-great experiences with Tindie, including very recentl= y.=C2=A0 So, yes, I'd prefer to do a direct buy from you.=C2=A0 You can keep the discount. =C2=A0 > I just noticed that I don=E2=80=99t have my new MCS-85+ minimum system on= tindie, Yeah, I saw the write-up.=C2=A0 Heheh.=C2=A0 Last night I remembered that I= *have* done something with the 8085 in the past- when I was in school (uni, 1985) they dropped that HP sui= tcase on my desk, with a lab manual.=C2=A0 Ugh.=C2=A0 I later ripped out the 8085 board (and dumpe= d it) as I wanted the suitcase :P =C2=A0 > Let me know what systems you are interested in starting and what question= s you have. Oh, I have various 8085 boards now, just to play around with, and to look a= t how they are all different in their design.=C2=A0 I liked Glitch's stacking mode, but dont l= ike his board designs and the no-buffering.=C2=A0 I liked your cassette board (first thing I saw about yo= ur projects, haha!) and then I noticed the buffering, the VDU board, etc.=C2=A0 Sergey's stuff (I have a l= ot of his stuff) is nice in yet other ways. =C2=A0 > I presume you have found the users manuals and example source code on the= project site. Yeah.=C2=A0 I have to be honest - I seriously dislike your site.=C2=A0 Or, = no- I dislike Wordpress, and I do not like how that forces certain things.=C2=A0 These days, developers use a sim= ple site that links directly to github repos where the "stuff" is at.=C2=A0 Easy to clone/fork and then = keep updated, etc.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 > Let me know where it can be improved. I did not like having to go through each "product" page, then dip into the = "downloadables" for it, click DOWNLOAD within each, and so on.=C2=A0 That is a typical Wordpres= s flow.=C2=A0 I would prefer these files to be either directly clickable, or, the more modern approach, = have them in a repo, with one repo per product.=C2=A0 Also allows the customer to keep an eye on= updates and so on. =C2=A0 > Also I tend to leave placeholders on the website and then forget to go ba= ck and finish.=C2=A0 I did see several mentions of products in the writeups (the spio_i2c comes = to mind) that exist, or did, but nothing else is there.=C2=A0 I also see products (bus proto and= io proto) that apparently have falled off.=C2=A0 That could be cleaned up, either way. =C2=A0 Ordering.=C2=A0 I have a habit of ordering a complete set of things, so: =C2=A0 - backplane - cpu - bus monitor - bus proto - mem exp - cassette - spio - spio_i2c - io proto =C2=A0 as far as they are available. Not sure if the 'proto' ones are, for example= .=C2=A0 Ideally, I would=20 like full-parts kits (most of my stuff is still packed up because I could n= ot use it for 2+ years) but not sure if you have those.=C2=A0 I would like 2 boards of each (one to= build, one to keep as-is) and, if you can give me a good deal, gold-plated would be preferred for at = least one set of boards. =C2=A0 Please advise. =C2=A0 Regards, =C2=A0 Fred =C2=A0 =20 ------=_Part_1059724_1824712393.1677551395567 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK, no problem, just wasnt s= ure.

What is your paypal address?

--Fre= d

=20
=20
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 08:53:37 PM GMT-5, <= ;craig@sbc-85.com> wrote:


it lost the alignment, that is for the tin boards.  $3 a= nd $5.  so two columns, one for tin and one for EING except for the bo= ards that are only in tin.

$31 for one set of tin and $64 for one set of ENIG (except tin backplane = and port prototyping board)

total of $95 for one tin set and one gold

plus 10 shipping

plus paypal fee

minus tindie fee.

&nb= sp;

 

see spreadsheet attached.

 

thanks

 

From: Fred van Kempen <decwiz@yahoo.com>=
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 4:57 PM
To: craig@sbc-85.com
Subject: Re:= ping, no r0b0t

 

What are the "3" and "= 5" numbers?  Number of boards?

 

 = ;

On= Monday, February 27, 2023 at 07:49:34 PM GMT-5, craig@sbc-85.co= m <craig@sbc-85.com> wrote:

=

 

 

Hi Fred,

&nb= sp;

here is the bare board list.  the backplane and port prototyping= board are only in TIN.  You would only need one bus monitor LED jig s= ince it is not a consumable.

I looked and I have never actually tested th= e I2C board which is why it isn=E2=80=99t listed on tindie.  I am pret= ty sure I have some.  I will just toss one in and you can let me know = how it goes.

this would all fit in a small or medium usps flat rate box, = so $10 for shipping.

 

if you use paypal direct w/o tindie, it sav= es the $5.43 and total would be $103.23

 

regards

Craig

 =

=

tin

enig

backplane

3

<= p style=3D"text-align:right;" class=3D"ydp7faca160yiv5769561254ydp1d06e90cy= iv0752267181msonormal" align=3D"right">$3.00

(TIN)

SBC-85

3

$9.00

bus moni= tor

5

$12.00

=

bus monitor LED jig

3

protoboard - bus

= 3

$9.50

protoboard port

3

$3.00

(TIN)

memory expansion

5

$9.00

cassette Interface

3

$9.00

SPIO

<= span style=3D"color:black;">3

$10.00

SPIO-I2C

31

$64.50

$95.50

shipping

$10.00

subtotal

<= p style=3D"text-align:right;" class=3D"ydp7faca160yiv5769561254ydp1d06e90cy= iv0752267181msonormal" align=3D"right">$105.50=

paypal

$3.17

tindie total

$108.67

tindie fee

-$5.43

n= o tindie total

$103.23

 

 

= =

 

 

 

 

 

<= span style=3D"color:black;"> 

 

 

=

 

&nb= sp;

 

 

 

 

 

=

 

 

 <= /p>

&nb= sp;

 

 

 

 

 

=

 

 

 

 

=

 

&nb= sp;

 

 

 

 

 

=

 

=  

 

 

 

 

 =

=  

 

 

 

 =

From: SB= C-85 <craig@sbc-85.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2023 8:13 PM
To: Fred van K= empen <decwiz@yahoo.com>
Subject:= Re: ping, no r0b0t

 

Hi Fred,

&= nbsp;

To the extent possible, I have given up on surface mount= . Just too small for my liking. I already have to use head magnifiers most = of the time.

 

You have a nice collection of= boards, perhaps you will want to extend the SBC-85 bus to include some of = your own boards if you think of something that is missing.  People are= always asking for some sort of video output or disk controller, but neithe= r of those appeal to me much.

 

PALs and GAL= s are just more trouble than they are worth for this scale of board and the= user base.  Like you said, it is one more hurdle to get over and ther= e is not an obscene amount of glue logic required. Yes, it would be easy to= compress more in the same size or offer more features. I just didn=E2=80= =99t want to go there.

 

I have one of those= HP 8085 trainers, not a bad bit of kit actually.  I prefer the SDK-85= but even there the monitor could have been improved. I run a better monito= r on mine and it makes it a nice little tool.

 

As for the website, I never really intended on this to take off and Wo= rdpress was an easy way to start. I understand where you are coming from. I= keep thinking I will have the time to move over to GitHub or something sim= ilar, but that hasn=E2=80=99t happened yet.  I will see if I can at le= ast clean it up a bit.

 

I will get these to= gether and price out, option for one gold set if I have them. <= /p>

 

Let me know of any problems you find in the manua= ls, BOMs, or software.

 

Regards

<= /div>

 

Craig

 

 <= /p>

 

On Feb 2= 6, 2023, at 4:53 PM, Fred van Kempen <decwiz@yahoo.com>= ; wrote:

=EF=BB=BF

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Hi!

 

See attached, forgot.. just some of t= he smaller ones I did over the years.  I like doing PTH, as most peopl= e

can (still) do that.  SMT makes for smaller boards a= nd more functionality, but, as you know, your customers

w= ill bitch :)

 

Anyway.

 

STD is not my thing. I know about it, of course, bu= t never did anything with it.  For the 8bit stuff, I dont

think one needs anything more than "just" the (demuxed) CPU bus- even t= hough that somewhat locks

you into that (family of) the CPU= .  I do like how your boards use buffers; something (else) I missed in=

the Glitch stuff.

 

N= ow, here's a thought.  How come only Sergey's boards use a programmabl= e device (GAL, in this

case) for combining a load of the gl= ue logic?  OK, yes, that makes you dependent on another "hard"<= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">

(for some) chip, but it makes things cleaner, and smaller.  I= think the address decoding stuff (for the

RAM and ROM sel= ects, but also for a "block" of I/O selects), and even a little bank switch= er, would

be a great addition?

 

> Ordering through tindie is easy, but ordering direct and us= ing PayPal gets a 5% discount.

I have several not-so-great = experiences with Tindie, including very recently.  So, yes, I'd prefer= to

do a direct buy from you.  You can keep the discou= nt.

 

> I just noticed that I don=E2=80= =99t have my new MCS-85+ minimum system on tindie,

=

Yeah, I = saw the write-up.  Heheh.  Last night I remembered that I *have* = done something with the

8085 in the past- when I was in sch= ool (uni, 1985) they dropped that HP suitcase on my desk, with

a lab manual.  Ugh.  I later ripped out the 8085 board (and d= umped it) as I wanted the suitcase :P

 

<= /div>

> Let me know what systems you are interested in starting and what que= stions you have.

Oh, I have various 8085 boards now, just t= o play around with, and to look at how they are all

differe= nt in their design.  I liked Glitch's stacking mode, but dont like his= board designs and the

no-buffering.  I liked your cas= sette board (first thing I saw about your projects, haha!) and then I

noticed the buffering, the VDU board, etc.  Sergey's stuff = (I have a lot of his stuff) is nice in yet

other ways.<= /span>

 

> I presume you have found the= users manuals and example source code on the project site.

Yeah.  I have to be honest - I seriously dislike your site.  Or,= no- I dislike Wordpress, and I do not

like how that forces= certain things.  These days, developers use a simple site that links = directly

to github repos where the "stuff" is at.  Eas= y to clone/fork and then keep updated, etc. 

 

> Let me know where it can be improved.

I did not like = having to go through each "product" page, then dip into the "downloadables"= for

it, click DOWNLOAD within each, and so on.  That is = a typical Wordpress flow.  I would prefer

these files to = be either directly clickable, or, the more modern approach, have them in a = repo,

with one repo per product.  Also allows the custome= r to keep an eye on updates and so on.

 

=

>= ; Also I tend to leave placeholders on the website and then forget to go ba= ck and finish. 

I did see several mentions of products in= the writeups (the spio_i2c comes to mind) that exist,

or did,= but nothing else is there.  I also see products (bus proto and io pro= to) that apparently

have falled off.  That could be clean= ed up, either way.

 

Ordering.  I have = a habit of ordering a complete set of things, so:

 

- backplane

- cpu

- bus monitor

- bus proto

- mem exp

- cassette

- spio

- spio_i2c

- io proto

 =

as far as they are available. Not sure if the 'proto' ones ar= e, for example.  Ideally, I would

like full-parts kits (= most of my stuff is still packed up because I could not use it for 2+ years= )

but not sure if you have those.  I would like 2 boards = of each (one to build, one to keep as-is)

and, if you can give= me a good deal, gold-plated would be preferred for at least one set of

boards.

 

Please advise.

 

Regards,

 

<= p class=3D"ydp7faca160yiv5769561254ydp1d06e90cyiv0752267181msonormal">Fred

 

<mhs-pi.png>

<mhs-revc.jpg>= ;

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=

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<dva.jpg>

<option.= jpg>

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