Return-Path: Delivered-To: craig@sbc-85.com Received: from gator4254.hostgator.com by gator4254.hostgator.com with LMTP id yO5uIFmu8GMf1wkAcizydQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 18 Feb 2023 04:54:17 -0600 Return-path: Envelope-to: craig@sbc-85.com Delivery-date: Sat, 18 Feb 2023 04:54:17 -0600 Received: from smtp32.cix.co.uk ([77.92.64.19]:48560 helo=smtp2.cix.co.uk) by gator4254.hostgator.com with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from ) id 1pTKrA-0031Hb-04 for craig@sbc-85.com; Sat, 18 Feb 2023 04:54:17 -0600 Received: (qmail 7501 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2023 10:54:01 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO LM010) (86.129.211.191) by smtp2.cix.co.uk with SMTP; 18 Feb 2023 10:54:00 +0000 Message-ID: <7CFC7B48DA4B407ABABA66A7F8A240FC@LM010> From: "Sid Jones" To: "Jon Hales" Cc: "Mattis Lind" , "SBC-85" References: <6A7E7BDD9FCB49FA98A8C58A597CA0AE@LM010> <909E53264E3C448D847C80B5D3A94279@LM010> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: intellec 8 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2023 10:53:44 -0000 Organization: Logic/Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01D94387.457C72D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.5 X-Spam-Score: 15 X-Spam-Bar: + X-Spam-Flag: NO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01D94387.457C72D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great! Let me know where to send the money, please! Happy to do a bank transfer. (Used it recently with a really nice royal = chappie, somewhere near the equator. Still waiting on the = =C2=A33,000,000 in return though...) And posting might be the best bet. Regards Sid From: Jon Hales=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2023 10:21 AM To: Sid Jones=20 Cc: Mattis Lind ; SBC-85=20 Subject: Re: intellec 8 Mattis, Sid, cc Craig Just to let everyone know that the two extender boards were delivered = this morning. They were well packed and arrived in perfect condition.=20 When the weather is a bit more favourable - too dark indoors and too = blustery outdoors - I'll photograph the extenders with a couple of the = Zendex types I have for Multibus systems - there may be some ideas that = you would find interesting. Sid: We need to discuss whether I despatch one to you or you collect it = in due course. Regards Jon On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 at 15:46, Sid Jones = wrote: Would you care to send them to Mr Hales, please? His immediate need might be greater than mine =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99ve = still got to get my case back from the panel beater/sprayer. And build a 1702A programmer! If that=E2=80=99s OK, Jon =E2=80=93 let me know the cost and I can = transfer money... (I=E2=80=99ve just read Jon=E2=80=99s email =E2=80=93 OK for me! = Perhaps a road trip to the East is called for...) Regards Sid From: Mattis Lind=20 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2023 12:34 PM To: Sid Jones=20 Cc: Jon Hales ; SBC-85=20 Subject: Re: intellec 8 Hello!=20 The cheapest rate I can find is for non-traceable mail. It is 10 euros = up to 500gram. Traceable small packages are 15 euros for up to 1kg. I think that two boards and some packing material would be less than = 500 gram. /Mattis Den fre 10 feb. 2023 kl 12:43 skrev Sid Jones = : What an excellent idea! I=E2=80=99d be up for that! In other news, I=E2=80=99m rewiring my intellec 4 mod 40 because the = original mains connections are just lethal... I=E2=80=99m adding a blanking plate across the mains outlet for an = IEC connector. Might be able to get more made if required? Also I=E2=80=99ve got some Molex connectors for the wiring harness = and I=E2=80=99m looking at a crimp tool for the inserts. The pukka device is =C2=A3400, but cheaper equivalants are = available. Details will be provided, but I might have the facility to terminate = leads for use with the original wiring connectors. Regards Sid From: Jon Hales=20 Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2023 9:26 PM To: Sid Jones=20 Cc: Mattis Lind ; SBC-85=20 Subject: Re: intellec 8 Hi Mattis=20 Congratulations. I'd like to buy one. If Sid is also wanting one, I = suggest you mail both boards to one of us and we sort out postage in UK. I think I have the socket already, but need to check the pin = spacing. So, when you work out the cost of shipping to UK, please check it = would allow for two boards. Regards=20 Jon On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, 20:34 Sid Jones, = wrote: I could be very tempted... What might the shipping cost be, please? I=E2=80=99m in the UK. I will take a look at the lines and check the differences. (And where did you get the socket? Did it require a bit of pin = persuasion to connect to the board?) Regards Sid From: Mattis Lind=20 Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2023 7:48 PM To: SBC-85=20 Cc: Sid Jones ; Jon Hales=20 Subject: Re: intellec 8 Hello!=20 I designed my own extender and it arrived today so I spent som = time soldering and testing it. It looks like it works fine. But it is = hard to tell for sure since my Intellec has some kind of trouble with = the front panel. It behaves exactly as before though. It is just HASL. = Not ENIG. 2um ENIG was quite a lot more expensive and I wasn=E2=80=99t = intending to use it that much so I stayed at HASL.=20 I have four more bare boards if anyone likes one. They are 10 = euros plus shipping to cover my actual costs.=20 /Mattis torsdag 2 februari 2023 skrev SBC-85 : The backplane for the intellec 4/40 and the 8/80 are different, = but to my knowledge the cards are the same dimensions. a straight = through extension card should be fine, but if the 8/80 doubled up = (front/back) voltage rails like the +/- 12V are shorted together on the = front/back, that would cause problems in the 4/40 where those lines are = signals While I made the power traces wider, I did not short and solder = side / component side traces together except possibly the ground (which = I think is the same on the 4/40 and 8/80 backplane.=20 I hope to get back to my intellec boards over the weekend = (depending on the weather).=20 Regards Craig On Feb 1, 2023, at 1:13 AM, Sid Jones = wrote: =EF=BB=BF=20 Yup, money ain=E2=80=99t what it used to be... I purchased a new Series III in 1981 for about =C2=A315,000 = then. (It=E2=80=99s still in my garage. Still waiting for it to earn its = value back..) (But it did help pay for a slightly cheaper Porsche 944 in = 1982!) I wonder if the intellecs used the same basic bus for 8 and 4 = bit... And extender would not need to know the actual signals. Just the = connector and depth? Regards Sid From: Jon Hales=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2023 9:22 PM To: Mattis Lind=20 Cc: Sid Jones ; craig@sbc-85.com=20 Subject: Re: intellec 8 Hi Mattis, cc Sid and Craig.=20 I was already familiar with the story about your Intellec = 8/80. The story is, as we say, 'the stuff of legends'. It's hard to = imagine it would happen these days. In a recent VCF Forum discussion, = Herb Johnson mentioned that your Monitor code is version 4.0 and that he = and Bill Beech are working on disassembly. The discussion is under = 'Pre-Altair' and was started by Roland Huisman some years ago. On the topic of what value we have attached to money at = different times, my wife and I bought our first house in UK in 1978. In = that year, the same amount of GB Pounds (same as the price of a small = house for a family) could have bought a basic-specification MDS = Series-II. This comes from a copy of Intel's 1978 price lists. A design for a bus extender would be helpful for anyone = dealing with Intellec systems. This is particularly relevant given the = Intellec backplane slots have specific functions, so the boards cannot = be moved around to allow signals to be probed. I'm aware that S-100 = slots have different assignments for the 2 x 50 contacts, but wouldn't = an S-100 extender have some potential? I have a third-party (Xentek) Multibus I extender board that = was (intended to be) fitted with relays and switches to enable or = disable power to the board under test, as well as some multi-LED = displays to provide a visual indication of activity - although I should = emphasise that I have just the bare board with no documentation and no = components with which to populate it. Given the capacity of today's test = equipment perhaps it's not of any practical benefit, but I found it = interesting to think about the potential of an 'advanced' bus extender. As I mentioned briefly, I have detailed photos of two Intellec = 8/80s, access to some documentation including schematic drawings and = dumps of EPROMs (from only one 8/80 and in that case held in two 2716s). = Would there be any value in my placing these items on my Google Drive = for a week or two? What I don't have is software for the Intellecs. I have tried = to locate the Intel InSite library of routines, but with no success.=20 Enough for now. All the best Jon On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 at 09:26, Mattis Lind = wrote: Hello everyone!=20 A short introduction: My name is Mattis Lind, I live in Sweden and have an = interest in old computers. My collection of various vintage computers = can be seen on www.datormuseum.se, unfortunately not updated for quite = some time. Almost 30 years ago I bought an Intellec 8/80 on a = flea-market in Stockholm for the equivalent of 10 USD. It has been = sitting on the shelf since then and just recently I thought I should do = something about it. My plan is to connect it to a teletype and perhaps = run BASIC or MicroChess just for fun.=20 The Intellec was torn down into pieces and cleaned. Then I = started to test the PSUs. The crowbar of the 5V PSU was set to trip at = almost 9V so I adjusted it down to a more reasonable level. Then I also = found that the 5V supply itself didn't regulate at all. After some head = scratching I discovered that the driver transistor was leaky. With a new = power transistor in place it regulated fine. I put everything together = and tried the machine with boards installed.=20 The front panel was acting strangely. Under certain = conditions I could enter data into memory and examine it, but it didn't = work as was indicated in the manual. At one point it was possible to = single step a one instruction program that jumped back to itself. I = checked the front panel itself. It looked like at least all switches = and LEDs were working but it looked like there was some logic on the = front panel controller in the bus that wasn't doing what it was supposed = to. To get access to do measurements on the board I needed an extender = board.=20 My idea was to quickly draw one up in KiCAD. I have done = quite many layouts in KiCAD so I wasn't expecting it to take that long. = But one obstacle is to get the proper measurements of the size of boards = and connectors, it takes some time to get this right and it is easy to = make mistakes. I did some googling on Intellec and found the interesting = pages by Craig. So I contacted him on the subject of KiCAD layout for = the Intellec sized PCBs. So this is the reason for ending up here! BTW I also have an Eberhard 1702 programmer and I also had = problems with some 1702 chips. But this is my only 1702 programmer so I = cannot compare it with others. I thought the EPROM was marginal. /Mattis Den m=C3=A5n 30 jan. 2023 kl 14:15 skrev Sid Jones = : Thanks for the email, Jon. My intellec 4 mod 40 (S/N 027!) is getting a ground up = refurbishment, due to having dropped off a shelf a decade or two ago... I=E2=80=99m building a high-speed tape reader simulator = and I really fancy a crack at a home-brew 1702A programmer. (Stealing from the best, of course...) What I=E2=80=99m really missing is the paper tape RAM = based assembler that came with the box. Should have kept a copy of the = tape when I left college! Regarding the MDS systems, I=E2=80=99ve got a MDS-800 box, = no terminal, no floppy drives, but I do have a Series III and a white = Series II that I was going to use for spares. With drives. And a stack of floppies =E2=80=98obtained=E2=80=99 from = various clients. And the odd intel manual or three.. Perhaps it=E2=80=99ll be time for a visit to sunny = Cambridge sometime soon? And how do I join the Google group, please? These = new-fangled =E2=80=98social media=E2=80=99 malarkey can get past me... Regards Sid PS 70th birthday present (to myself) pictured! Rockwell = Echo cancelling chip with Star Trek =E2=80=98Enterprise=E2=80=99 in the = layers! Geek cred squared! From: Jon Hales=20 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 11:32 AM To: Sid Jones=20 Cc: craig@sbc-85.com ; Mattis Lind=20 Subject: Re: intellec 8 Hi Sid, copied to Mattis and Craig=20 Many thanks for your message. You are in a fortunate = position to have a 4/40. I was planning to write to you and Mattis, copied to = Craig, to explain (briefly) where I'm coming from.=20 About ten years ago I was looking for a 386 CPU and found = an eBay seller in UK offering an Intel Multibus board containing a 386 = and 387 for about the amount I had expected to pay for the CPU. Fast = forward to about 2020, when I bought a 386 board from Northwest = Technical, which came with a set of original ROMs and a copy of the = manual. I was able to get the original board working by copying the = ROMs. Along the way I had collected several Intel Model 310 86/286 = systems running Xenix and iRMX-86. I realise that Mattis was even more fortunate in buying a = Intellec 8/80 for about the amount I paid for the 386 board. Around seven years ago I started volunteering at the = Centre for Computing History in Cambridge (developing an archive of = magnetic media, which no-one else seemed interested in preserving; I = live near Cambridge). The museum already had an Intellec 8/80. I = collected another 8/80 from a donor who had stored a quantity of Intel = development systems after they were scrapped by his employer. This gave = me an opportunity to partially dismantle it (for cleaning and = inspection) and photograph the boards and PSUs before it went to the = museum. More recently, I photographed the boards and chassis of the = museum's 8/80 to copy the images to Craig. The PROM board had been = adapted to 2716s. The Cambridge museum has a fully-operational Apple 1 = reproduction. A friend of the museum populated the board with = period-correct chips as well as the PSU and adding a tape interface. I = donated a Hitachi mono monitor to provide a display. This is a permanent = exhibit, alongside an Altair 8800, an 8800b and an Imsai 8080. Unlike = the Intellec 8/80s, although they have (at least) comparable historical = significance, which remain in storage. This is the background to propose = an Intellec 8/80 reproduction system for the museum. Craig's initiative is an opportunity not-to-be-missed to = acquire the basis of a reproduction Intellec. As a 'data specialist', my = understanding of electronics is basic. However, I have had a good deal = of success at building up useful systems from bare boards. I would be = ready to organise orders from JLCPCB, with which I have an account. Craig and I have been in contact for some time via an = 'email group' called Intel Devsys on Google Groups. This developed from = the efforts of Bill Beech, Richard Main and Herb Johnson (and others) to = support efforts to get MDS systems working. There are now some members = of the group in UK. I have contributed disk images, based partly on the = museum's collection, and scans of various Intel documents. Mark Ogden = (ogdenpm on Github) has done much to organise the collection of software = and manuals. Although the emphasis has been mainly on Series II MDS = systems, it would appear a good approach to suggest you both join this = group. As well as providing support to each other, the group has been = successful at bringing together information on Bill Beech's Google = Drive. Sid: I know someone who built himself a Martin Eberhard = programmer for 1702s. I could put you in touch with him if you want an = easy way to get code into these chips. (I know, it would be better to do = this via an Intellec or a iUP-103 Universal Programmer with the = appropriate interface - I have an iUP-103, but it's only equipped for = 2716s). Best regards Jon On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 10:34, Sid Jones = wrote: Thanks for the update! FYI: I=E2=80=99m refurbishing an intel intellec 4/40 = that I used in college between 1974-1977. And the mission creep sets in, so I have to build a = RS232-20 mA current loop interface and a 1702A EPROM programmer. Use a 2372A board with flying leads to drop into the ROM = monitor socket, to get over the bit rot in the original 1702A devices = until I can programme some more!. BTW: I have a source of 1702A =E2=80=98new, old = stock=E2=80=99 EPROMs in Sweden. A nice gentleman called Bjorn Lundin = has a stash of 500+ !!! This will be after the case has been cleaned, de-bent = and repainted. Small accident in the 1990=E2=80=99s involving a weak = shelf and gravity... I do have a spare set of 4040/4289(?) and 4201 devices = from the uni project and after being inspired by Craig=E2=80=99s work, = I=E2=80=99m giving some thought to a =E2=80=98new=E2=80=99 CPU board for = the 4040. Replace the 4x1702A with a 2732A, modern logic rather = than the electron guzzling 3205 and other devices, socket everything and = make a new drop-in board for my intel box. Madness, or what? Regards Sid From: craig@sbc-85.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2023 11:25 PM To: 'Jon Hales' ; 'Mattis Lind' ; 'Sid Jones'=20 Subject: intellec 8 Hi Jon, Mattis, & Sid I am not sure you are all aware of each other = yet=E2=80=A6 but I think everyone has some level of interest in making = one or more of the reproduction boards for the intellect and, since you = are somewhat close together, it may make sense to order boards directly = from the board house and redistribute amongst yourselves. Sid and Jon = are in the UK, Mattis is in Sweden=E2=80=94two of my favorite countries = to visit by the way. As for the boards, I have been distracted lately but = hope to get back to get them fully tested. the PROM, RAM, Motherboard, = and 8008 CPU all look OK, I need to build and test the 8080 CPU and a = simple card extender board. I haven=E2=80=99t even started a front = panel board or either of the I/O boards and have no intention yet to = make the eprom programming board. I expect the remaining boards may = continue to drag out, or maybe someone else will decide to make them = before me. If Sid and Mattis have not joined the intel development = google group, that remains to be the most centralized and deepest well = of information. regards to all, craig ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01D94387.457C72D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Great!
 
Let me know where to send the money, please!
 
Happy to do a bank transfer. (Used it recently with a really nice = royal=20 chappie, somewhere near the equator. Still waiting on the = =C2=A33,000,000 in return=20 though...)
 
And posting might be the best bet.
 
Regards
 
Sid
 
 
 
 
 
From: Jon Hales
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2023 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: intellec 8
 
Mattis, Sid, cc Craig
 
Just to let everyone know that the two extender boards = were=20 delivered this morning. They were well packed and arrived in perfect = condition.=20
 
When the weather is a bit more favourable - too dark indoors and = too=20 blustery outdoors - I'll photograph the extenders with a couple of the = Zendex=20 types I have for Multibus systems - there may be some ideas that you = would find=20 interesting.
 
Sid: We need to discuss whether I despatch one to you or you = collect it in=20 due course.
 
Regards
 
Jon
 
On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 at 15:46, Sid = Jones <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.= uk>=20 wrote:
Would you care to send them to Mr Hales, please?
 
His immediate need might be greater than mine =E2=80=93 = I=E2=80=99ve still got to get my=20 case back from the panel beater/sprayer.
 
And build a 1702A programmer!
 
If that=E2=80=99s OK, Jon =E2=80=93 let me know the cost and I = can transfer=20 money...
 
(I=E2=80=99ve just read Jon=E2=80=99s email =E2=80=93 OK for me! = Perhaps a road trip to the East=20 is called for...)
 
Regards
 
Sid
 
From: Mattis Lind =
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2023 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: intellec 8
 
Hello!=20
 
The cheapest rate I can find is for non-traceable mail. It is 10 = euros up=20 to 500gram. Traceable small packages are 15 euros for up to 1kg.
 
I think that two boards and some packing material would be less = than 500=20 gram.
 
/Mattis
 
Den fre 10 feb. 2023 kl 12:43 skrev = Sid Jones=20 <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk>:
What an excellent idea!
 
I=E2=80=99d be up for that!
 
In other news, I=E2=80=99m rewiring my intellec 4 mod 40 = because the original=20 mains connections are just lethal...
 
I=E2=80=99m adding a blanking plate across the mains outlet for = an IEC=20 connector.
 
Might be able to get more made if required?
 
Also I=E2=80=99ve got some Molex connectors for the wiring = harness and I=E2=80=99m=20 looking at a crimp tool for the inserts.
 
The pukka device is =C2=A3400, but cheaper equivalants are = available.
 
Details will be provided, but I might have the facility to = terminate=20 leads for use with the original wiring connectors.
 
Regards
 
Sid
 
 
 
From: Jon Hales =
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2023 9:26 PM
To: Sid = Jones=20
Cc: Mattis Lind = ; SBC-85
Subject: Re: intellec 8
 
Hi Mattis=20
 
Congratulations. I'd like to buy one. If Sid is also wanting = one, I=20 suggest you mail both boards to one of us and we sort out postage in = UK.
 
I think I have the socket already, but need to check the pin=20 spacing.
 
So, when you work out the cost of shipping to UK, please check = it would=20 allow for two boards.
 
Regards
 
Jon
 
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, 20:34 Sid = Jones, <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk> = wrote:
I could be very tempted...
 
What might the shipping cost be, please?
 
I=E2=80=99m in the UK.
 
I will take a look at the lines and check the = differences.
 
(And where did you get the socket? Did it require a bit of = pin=20 persuasion to connect to the board?)
 
Regards
 
Sid
 
 
 
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2023 7:48 PM
To: SBC-85
Subject: Re: intellec 8
 
Hello!=20
 
I designed my own extender and it arrived today so I spent = som time=20 soldering and testing it. It looks like it works fine. But it is = hard to=20 tell for sure since my Intellec has some kind of trouble with the = front=20 panel. It behaves exactly as before though. It is just HASL. Not = ENIG. 2um=20 ENIG was quite a lot more expensive and I wasn=E2=80=99t intending = to use it that=20 much so I stayed at HASL.
 
I have four more bare boards if anyone likes one.  They = are 10=20 euros plus shipping to cover my actual costs.
 
/Mattis


torsdag 2 februari 2023 skrev SBC-85 <craig@sbc-85.com>:
The backplane for the intellec 4/40 and the 8/80 = are=20 different, but to my knowledge the cards are the same = dimensions. =20 a straight through extension card should be fine, but if the = 8/80=20 doubled up (front/back) voltage rails like the +/- 12V are = shorted=20 together on the front/back, that would cause problems in the = 4/40 where=20 those lines are signals
 
While I made the power traces wider, I did not = short and=20 solder side / component side traces together except possibly the = ground=20 (which I think is the same on the 4/40 and 8/80 backplane. =
 
I hope to get back to my intellec boards over the = weekend=20 (depending on the weather).
 
Regards
 
Craig

On Feb 1, 2023, at 1:13 AM, Sid Jones = <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk>=20 wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20
Yup, money ain=E2=80=99t what it used to be...
 
I purchased a new Series III in 1981 for about = =C2=A315,000 then.=20 (It=E2=80=99s still in my garage. Still waiting for it to earn = its value=20 back..)
 
(But it did help pay for a slightly cheaper Porsche 944 = in=20 1982!)
 
I wonder if the intellecs used the same basic bus for 8 = and 4=20 bit... And extender would not need to know the actual signals. = Just=20 the connector and depth?
 
Regards
 
Sid
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2023 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: intellec 8
 
Hi Mattis, cc Sid and Craig.=20
 
I was already familiar with the story about your Intellec = 8/80.=20 The story is, as we say, 'the stuff of legends'. It's hard to = imagine=20 it would happen these days. In a recent VCF Forum discussion, = Herb=20 Johnson mentioned that your Monitor code is version 4.0 and = that he=20 and Bill Beech are working on disassembly. The discussion is = under=20 'Pre-Altair' and was started by Roland Huisman some years = ago.
 
On the topic of what value we have attached to money at = different=20 times, my wife and I bought our first house in UK in 1978. In = that=20 year, the same amount of GB Pounds (same as the price of a = small house=20 for a family) could have bought a basic-specification MDS = Series-II.=20 This comes from a copy of Intel's 1978 price lists.
 
A design for a bus extender would be helpful for anyone = dealing=20 with Intellec systems. This is particularly relevant given the = Intellec backplane slots have specific functions, so the = boards cannot=20 be moved around to allow signals to be probed. I'm aware that = S-100=20 slots have different assignments for the 2 x 50 contacts, but = wouldn't=20 an S-100 extender have some potential?
 
I have a third-party (Xentek) Multibus I extender board = that was=20 (intended to be) fitted with relays and switches to enable or = disable=20 power to the board under test, as well as some multi-LED = displays to=20 provide a visual indication of activity - although I should = emphasise=20 that I have just the bare board with no documentation and no=20 components with which to populate it. Given the capacity of = today's=20 test equipment perhaps it's not of any practical benefit, but = I found=20 it interesting to think about the potential of an 'advanced' = bus=20 extender.
 
As I mentioned briefly, I have detailed photos of two = Intellec=20 8/80s, access to some documentation including schematic = drawings and=20 dumps of EPROMs (from only one 8/80 and in that case held in = two=20 2716s). Would there be any value in my placing these items on = my=20 Google Drive for a week or two?
 
What I don't have is software for the Intellecs. I have = tried to=20 locate the Intel InSite library of routines, but with no = success.=20
 
Enough for now.
 
All the best
 
Jon
 
On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 at = 09:26, Mattis=20 Lind <mattislind@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello everyone!=20
 
A short introduction:
 
My name is Mattis Lind, I live in Sweden and have an = interest=20 in old computers. My collection of various vintage computers = can be=20 seen on www.datormuseum.se, unfortunately not = updated for=20 quite some time.
Almost 30 years ago I bought an Intellec 8/80 on a = flea-market=20 in Stockholm for the equivalent of 10 USD. It has been = sitting on=20 the shelf since then and just recently I thought I should do = something about it. My plan is to connect it to a teletype = and=20 perhaps run BASIC or MicroChess just for fun.
 
The Intellec was torn down into pieces and cleaned. = Then I=20 started to test the PSUs. The crowbar of the 5V PSU was set = to trip=20 at almost 9V so I adjusted it down to a more reasonable = level. Then=20 I also found that the 5V supply itself didn't regulate at = all. After=20 some head scratching I discovered that the driver transistor = was=20 leaky. With a new power transistor in place it regulated = fine. I put=20 everything together and tried the machine with boards = installed.=20
 
The front panel was acting strangely. Under certain = conditions=20 I could enter data into memory and examine it, but it didn't = work as=20 was indicated in the manual. At one point it was possible to = single=20 step a one instruction program that jumped back to itself. I = checked=20 the front  panel itself. It looked like at least all = switches=20 and LEDs were working but it looked like there was some = logic on the=20 front panel controller in the bus that wasn't doing what it = was=20 supposed to. To get access to do measurements on the  = board I=20 needed an extender board.
 
My idea was to quickly draw one up in KiCAD. I have = done quite=20 many layouts in KiCAD so I wasn't expecting it to take that = long.=20 But one obstacle is to get the proper measurements of the = size of=20 boards and connectors, it takes some time to get this right = and it=20 is easy to make mistakes.
 
I did some googling on Intellec and found the = interesting pages=20 by Craig. So I contacted him on the subject of KiCAD layout = for the=20 Intellec sized PCBs.
 
So this is the reason for ending up here!
 
BTW I also have an Eberhard 1702 programmer and I also = had=20 problems with some 1702 chips. But this is my only 1702 = programmer=20 so I cannot compare it with others. I thought the EPROM was=20 marginal.
 
 
/Mattis
 
 
Den m=C3=A5n 30 jan. 2023 = kl 14:15 skrev=20 Sid Jones <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk>:
Thanks for the email, Jon.
 
My intellec 4 mod 40 (S/N 027!) is getting a ground = up=20 refurbishment, due to having dropped off a shelf a decade = or two=20 ago...
 
I=E2=80=99m building a high-speed tape reader = simulator and I really=20 fancy a crack at a home-brew 1702A programmer.
 
(Stealing from the best, of course...)
 
What I=E2=80=99m really missing is the paper tape RAM = based assembler=20 that came with the box. Should have kept a copy of the = tape when I=20 left college!
 
Regarding the MDS systems, I=E2=80=99ve got a MDS-800 = box, no=20 terminal, no floppy drives, but I do have a Series III and = a white=20 Series II that I was going to use for spares. With = drives.
 
And a stack of floppies =E2=80=98obtained=E2=80=99 = from various clients. And=20 the odd intel manual or three..
 
Perhaps it=E2=80=99ll be time for a visit to sunny = Cambridge sometime=20 soon?
 
And how do I join the Google group, please? These = new-fangled=20 =E2=80=98social media=E2=80=99 malarkey can get past = me...
 
Regards
 
Sid
 
PS 70th birthday present (to myself) pictured! = Rockwell Echo=20 cancelling chip with Star Trek = =E2=80=98Enterprise=E2=80=99 in the layers! Geek=20 cred squared!
 
 
 
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: intellec 8
 
Hi Sid, copied to Mattis and Craig=20
 
Many thanks for your message. You are in a fortunate = position=20 to have a 4/40.
 
I was planning to write to you and Mattis, copied to = Craig,=20 to explain (briefly) where I'm coming from.
 
About ten years ago I was looking for a 386 CPU and = found an=20 eBay seller in UK offering an Intel Multibus board = containing a=20 386 and 387 for about the amount I had expected to pay for = the=20 CPU. Fast forward to about 2020, when I bought a 386 board = from=20 Northwest Technical, which came with a set of = original  ROMs=20 and a copy of the manual. I was able to get the original = board=20 working by copying the ROMs. Along the way I had collected = several=20 Intel Model 310 86/286 systems running Xenix and = iRMX-86.
 
I realise that Mattis was even more fortunate in = buying a=20 Intellec 8/80 for about the amount I paid for the 386 = board.
 
Around seven years ago I started volunteering at the = Centre=20 for Computing History in Cambridge (developing an archive = of=20 magnetic media, which no-one else seemed interested in = preserving;=20 I live near Cambridge). The museum already had an Intellec = 8/80. I=20 collected another 8/80 from a donor who had stored a = quantity of=20 Intel development systems after they were scrapped by his=20 employer. This gave me an opportunity to partially = dismantle it=20 (for cleaning and inspection) and photograph the boards = and PSUs=20 before it went to the museum. More recently, I = photographed the=20 boards and chassis of the museum's 8/80 to copy the images = to=20 Craig. The PROM board had been adapted to 2716s.
 
The Cambridge museum has a fully-operational Apple 1=20 reproduction. A friend of the museum populated the board = with=20 period-correct chips as well as the PSU and adding a tape=20 interface. I donated a Hitachi mono monitor to provide a = display.=20 This is a permanent exhibit, alongside an Altair 8800, an = 8800b=20 and an Imsai 8080. Unlike the Intellec 8/80s, although = they have=20 (at least) comparable historical significance, which = remain in=20 storage. This is the background to propose an Intellec = 8/80=20 reproduction system for the museum.
 
Craig's initiative is an opportunity not-to-be-missed = to=20 acquire the basis of a reproduction Intellec. As a 'data=20 specialist', my understanding of electronics is basic. = However, I=20 have had a good deal of success at building up useful = systems from=20 bare boards. I would be ready to organise orders from = JLCPCB, with=20 which I have an account.
 
Craig and I have been in contact for some time via an = 'email=20 group' called Intel Devsys on Google Groups. This = developed from=20 the efforts of Bill Beech, Richard Main and Herb Johnson = (and=20 others) to support efforts to get MDS systems working. = There are=20 now some members of the group in UK. I have contributed = disk=20 images, based partly on the museum's collection, and scans = of=20 various Intel documents. Mark Ogden (ogdenpm on Github) = has done=20 much to organise the collection of software and manuals. = Although=20 the emphasis has been mainly on Series II MDS systems, it = would=20 appear a good approach to suggest you both join this = group. As=20 well as providing support to each other, the group has = been=20 successful at bringing together information on Bill = Beech's Google=20 Drive.
 
Sid: I know someone who built himself a Martin = Eberhard=20 programmer for 1702s. I could put you in touch with him if = you=20 want an easy way to get code into these chips. (I know, it = would=20 be better to do this via an Intellec or a iUP-103 = Universal=20 Programmer with the appropriate interface - I have an = iUP-103, but=20 it's only equipped for 2716s).
 
Best regards
 
Jon
 
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at = 10:34, Sid=20 Jones <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk>=20 wrote:
Thanks for the update!
 
FYI: I=E2=80=99m refurbishing an intel intellec = 4/40 that I used in=20 college between 1974-1977.
 
And the mission creep sets in, so I have to build a = RS232-20 mA current loop interface and a 1702A EPROM=20 programmer.
 
Use a 2372A board with flying leads to drop into = the ROM=20 monitor socket, to get over the bit rot in the original = 1702A=20 devices until I can programme some more!.
 
BTW: I have a source of 1702A =E2=80=98new, old = stock=E2=80=99 EPROMs in=20 Sweden. A nice gentleman called Bjorn Lundin has a stash = of 500+=20 !!!
 
This will be after the case has been cleaned, = de-bent and=20 repainted. Small accident in the 1990=E2=80=99s = involving a weak shelf=20 and gravity...
 
I do have a spare set of 4040/4289(?) and 4201 = devices from=20 the uni project and after being inspired by = Craig=E2=80=99s work, I=E2=80=99m=20 giving some thought to a =E2=80=98new=E2=80=99 CPU board = for the 4040.
 
Replace the 4x1702A with a 2732A, modern logic = rather than=20 the electron guzzling 3205 and other devices, socket = everything=20 and make a new drop-in board for my intel box.
 
Madness, or what?
 
Regards
 
Sid
 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2023 11:25 = PM
To: 'Jon Hales' ; 'Mattis Lind' ; 'Sid Jones'
Subject: intellec 8
 

Hi Jon, Mattis, & = Sid

 

I am not sure you are all aware of = each other=20 yet=E2=80=A6 but I think everyone has some level of = interest in making=20 one or more of the reproduction boards for the intellect = and,=20 since you are somewhat close together, it may make sense = to=20 order boards directly from the board house and = redistribute=20 amongst yourselves.  Sid and Jon are in the UK, = Mattis is=20 in Sweden=E2=80=94two of my favorite countries to visit = by the=20 way.

 

As for the boards, I have been = distracted=20 lately but hope to get back to get them fully = tested.  the=20 PROM, RAM, Motherboard, and 8008 CPU all look OK, I need = to=20 build and test the 8080 CPU and a simple card extender=20 board.  I haven=E2=80=99t even started a front = panel board or=20 either of the I/O boards and have no intention yet to = make the=20 eprom programming board.  I expect the remaining = boards may=20 continue to drag out, or maybe someone else will decide = to make=20 them before me.

 

If Sid and Mattis have not joined = the intel=20 development google group, that remains to be the most=20 centralized and deepest well of = information.

 

regards to all,

 

craig

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