Return-Path: Delivered-To: craig@sbc-85.com Received: from gator4254.hostgator.com by gator4254.hostgator.com with LMTP id MK5XJAZl5WOP2woAcizydQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 09 Feb 2023 15:26:30 -0600 Return-path: Envelope-to: craig@sbc-85.com Delivery-date: Thu, 09 Feb 2023 15:26:30 -0600 Received: from mail-wm1-f50.google.com ([209.85.128.50]:41883) by gator4254.hostgator.com with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from ) id 1pQER3-0032Yg-GZ for craig@sbc-85.com; Thu, 09 Feb 2023 15:26:30 -0600 Received: by mail-wm1-f50.google.com with SMTP id l37-20020a05600c1d2500b003dfe46a9801so2672387wms.0 for ; Thu, 09 Feb 2023 13:26:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/M/kryXh1CxiWMJiPWyKn5V2h4C1K1GWBte3WioMyiE=; b=qv9tiO0KSt7lRmw3HlRqNyBIJjMMHPxhsPqWkgmWaQAUFFwBS8W/pMgeITJr49hhv4 zC0u97/zuNr0PAi8qpDdUnUQbsSWADtI4Yfi8H8Gu6sNHeRNOAJ9h8T063SvqaC8epUW hLdcKNZYFxduMETqAR3o9UGsJq144Tg1JM8JObjWp+OQWcZLi04lvUKyT3t+ee9a0kpQ QjH8TG8LATlZf5IJV5KFqtP37UIEjFnako7eZyKnvzbr8WhJKK1nouNJY47ulJX8B9is MkUth4OkU85DLkVXdkFZkLVlbNYnyEE0RX7I6NIwK82X8U5wO0a5vzu6F9He6KVg3+m8 nMUg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=/M/kryXh1CxiWMJiPWyKn5V2h4C1K1GWBte3WioMyiE=; b=I7PslVTLb5+nGN5r61gvQzcCGFRjG2IcbDByrSlN2aZt9GInN9u7BixDSp/5Gg4iMk cBrVCwmQWFPLv5WWO1vomQyNHZapV7a29b4g7/QrAJPk/3kN14VQHifsKbBi5ydDDdC1 77lvHcWiJVzElgTWDDNIROalGagdFi8TDbw1kwRU6wR4RZKbmpbLLoWUenTxkYh19ROR Frn7r0+0U7ohaDpYORFm0ox2HIDYNQ3Ei4BBJe82I0KDcvKP6sn0BGnFKuQyf21cZEDa D2tFcyRIVxWQDQqBRNSS9m0dyT9kgeaJ54wNg3CfiQuAa/3SkWuRxPfP0/Ft0TI8kOKQ VExw== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKWul8s0wiJ4CT6c/eWPsl+8Yga5sAsKg1yZOmUWaROu+5VzqAy5 CgB+IYXVYhhLfUTx2hV8CH9pg5ORBa5bPO85T44= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/H1SenA0iAnhQQpARXPJTeciwqs5PQ7zngu/G4IEAAdWrtBC8mE7WdqINLYy/luh8RpEVXHYuQo1RYwCQzToo= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:c916:0:b0:3df:ffca:296a with SMTP id f22-20020a1cc916000000b003dfffca296amr686243wmb.146.1675977977778; Thu, 09 Feb 2023 13:26:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jon Hales Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2023 21:26:06 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: intellec 8 To: Sid Jones Cc: Mattis Lind , SBC-85 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000004563905f44b0874" X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 X-Spam-Score: 8 X-Spam-Bar: / X-Spam-Flag: NO --00000000000004563905f44b0874 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mattis Congratulations. I'd like to buy one. If Sid is also wanting one, I suggest you mail both boards to one of us and we sort out postage in UK. I think I have the socket already, but need to check the pin spacing. So, when you work out the cost of shipping to UK, please check it would allow for two boards. Regards Jon On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, 20:34 Sid Jones, wrote: > I could be very tempted... > > What might the shipping cost be, please? > > I=E2=80=99m in the UK. > > I will take a look at the lines and check the differences. > > (And where did you get the socket? Did it require a bit of pin persuasion > to connect to the board?) > > Regards > > Sid > > > > *From:* Mattis Lind > *Sent:* Thursday, February 09, 2023 7:48 PM > *To:* SBC-85 > *Cc:* Sid Jones ; Jon Hales > > *Subject:* Re: intellec 8 > > Hello! > > I designed my own extender and it arrived today so I spent som time > soldering and testing it. It looks like it works fine. But it is hard to > tell for sure since my Intellec has some kind of trouble with the front > panel. It behaves exactly as before though. It is just HASL. Not ENIG. 2u= m > ENIG was quite a lot more expensive and I wasn=E2=80=99t intending to use= it that > much so I stayed at HASL. > > I have four more bare boards if anyone likes one. They are 10 euros plus > shipping to cover my actual costs. > > /Mattis > > > torsdag 2 februari 2023 skrev SBC-85 : > >> The backplane for the intellec 4/40 and the 8/80 are different, but to m= y >> knowledge the cards are the same dimensions. a straight through extensi= on >> card should be fine, but if the 8/80 doubled up (front/back) voltage rai= ls >> like the +/- 12V are shorted together on the front/back, that would caus= e >> problems in the 4/40 where those lines are signals >> >> While I made the power traces wider, I did not short and solder side / >> component side traces together except possibly the ground (which I think= is >> the same on the 4/40 and 8/80 backplane. >> >> I hope to get back to my intellec boards over the weekend (depending on >> the weather). >> >> Regards >> >> Craig >> >> On Feb 1, 2023, at 1:13 AM, Sid Jones >> wrote: >> >> =EF=BB=BF >> Yup, money ain=E2=80=99t what it used to be... >> >> I purchased a new Series III in 1981 for about =C2=A315,000 then. (It=E2= =80=99s still >> in my garage. Still waiting for it to earn its value back..) >> >> (But it did help pay for a slightly cheaper Porsche 944 in 1982!) >> >> I wonder if the intellecs used the same basic bus for 8 and 4 bit... And >> extender would not need to know the actual signals. Just the connector a= nd >> depth? >> >> Regards >> >> Sid >> >> >> *From:* Jon Hales >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2023 9:22 PM >> *To:* Mattis Lind >> *Cc:* Sid Jones ; craig@sbc-85.com >> *Subject:* Re: intellec 8 >> >> Hi Mattis, cc Sid and Craig. >> >> I was already familiar with the story about your Intellec 8/80. The stor= y >> is, as we say, 'the stuff of legends'. It's hard to imagine it would hap= pen >> these days. In a recent VCF Forum discussion, Herb Johnson mentioned tha= t >> your Monitor code is version 4.0 and that he and Bill Beech are working = on >> disassembly. The discussion is under 'Pre-Altair' and was started by Rol= and >> Huisman some years ago. >> >> On the topic of what value we have attached to money at different times, >> my wife and I bought our first house in UK in 1978. In that year, the sa= me >> amount of GB Pounds (same as the price of a small house for a family) co= uld >> have bought a basic-specification MDS Series-II. This comes from a copy = of >> Intel's 1978 price lists. >> >> A design for a bus extender would be helpful for anyone dealing with >> Intellec systems. This is particularly relevant given the Intellec >> backplane slots have specific functions, so the boards cannot be moved >> around to allow signals to be probed. I'm aware that S-100 slots have >> different assignments for the 2 x 50 contacts, but wouldn't an S-100 >> extender have some potential? >> >> I have a third-party (Xentek) Multibus I extender board that was >> (intended to be) fitted with relays and switches to enable or disable po= wer >> to the board under test, as well as some multi-LED displays to provide a >> visual indication of activity - although I should emphasise that I have >> just the bare board with no documentation and no components with which t= o >> populate it. Given the capacity of today's test equipment perhaps it's n= ot >> of any practical benefit, but I found it interesting to think about the >> potential of an 'advanced' bus extender. >> >> As I mentioned briefly, I have detailed photos of two Intellec 8/80s, >> access to some documentation including schematic drawings and dumps of >> EPROMs (from only one 8/80 and in that case held in two 2716s). Would th= ere >> be any value in my placing these items on my Google Drive for a week or = two? >> >> What I don't have is software for the Intellecs. I have tried to locate >> the Intel InSite library of routines, but with no success. >> >> Enough for now. >> >> All the best >> >> Jon >> >> On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 at 09:26, Mattis Lind wrote: >> >>> Hello everyone! >>> >>> A short introduction: >>> >>> My name is Mattis Lind, I live in Sweden and have an interest in old >>> computers. My collection of various vintage computers can be seen on >>> www.datormuseum.se, unfortunately not updated for quite some time. >>> Almost 30 years ago I bought an Intellec 8/80 on a flea-market in >>> Stockholm for the equivalent of 10 USD. It has been sitting on the shel= f >>> since then and just recently I thought I should do something about it. = My >>> plan is to connect it to a teletype and perhaps run BASIC or MicroChess >>> just for fun. >>> >>> The Intellec was torn down into pieces and cleaned. Then I started to >>> test the PSUs. The crowbar of the 5V PSU was set to trip at almost 9V s= o I >>> adjusted it down to a more reasonable level. Then I also found that the= 5V >>> supply itself didn't regulate at all. After some head scratching I >>> discovered that the driver transistor was leaky. With a new power >>> transistor in place it regulated fine. I put everything together and tr= ied >>> the machine with boards installed. >>> >>> The front panel was acting strangely. Under certain conditions I could >>> enter data into memory and examine it, but it didn't work as was indica= ted >>> in the manual. At one point it was possible to single step a one >>> instruction program that jumped back to itself. I checked the front pa= nel >>> itself. It looked like at least all switches and LEDs were working but = it >>> looked like there was some logic on the front panel controller in the b= us >>> that wasn't doing what it was supposed to. To get access to do measurem= ents >>> on the board I needed an extender board. >>> >>> My idea was to quickly draw one up in KiCAD. I have done quite many >>> layouts in KiCAD so I wasn't expecting it to take that long. But one >>> obstacle is to get the proper measurements of the size of boards and >>> connectors, it takes some time to get this right and it is easy to make >>> mistakes. >>> >>> I did some googling on Intellec and found the interesting pages by >>> Craig. So I contacted him on the subject of KiCAD layout for the Intell= ec >>> sized PCBs. >>> >>> So this is the reason for ending up here! >>> >>> BTW I also have an Eberhard 1702 programmer and I also had problems wit= h >>> some 1702 chips. But this is my only 1702 programmer so I cannot compar= e it >>> with others. I thought the EPROM was marginal. >>> >>> >>> /Mattis >>> >>> >>> Den m=C3=A5n 30 jan. 2023 kl 14:15 skrev Sid Jones < >>> jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk>: >>> >>>> Thanks for the email, Jon. >>>> >>>> My intellec 4 mod 40 (S/N 027!) is getting a ground up refurbishment, >>>> due to having dropped off a shelf a decade or two ago... >>>> >>>> I=E2=80=99m building a high-speed tape reader simulator and I really f= ancy a >>>> crack at a home-brew 1702A programmer. >>>> >>>> (Stealing from the best, of course...) >>>> >>>> What I=E2=80=99m really missing is the paper tape RAM based assembler = that came >>>> with the box. Should have kept a copy of the tape when I left college! >>>> >>>> Regarding the MDS systems, I=E2=80=99ve got a MDS-800 box, no terminal= , no >>>> floppy drives, but I do have a Series III and a white Series II that I= was >>>> going to use for spares. With drives. >>>> >>>> And a stack of floppies =E2=80=98obtained=E2=80=99 from various client= s. And the odd >>>> intel manual or three.. >>>> >>>> Perhaps it=E2=80=99ll be time for a visit to sunny Cambridge sometime = soon? >>>> >>>> And how do I join the Google group, please? These new-fangled =E2=80= =98social >>>> media=E2=80=99 malarkey can get past me... >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Sid >>>> >>>> PS 70th birthday present (to myself) pictured! Rockwell Echo cancellin= g >>>> chip with Star Trek =E2=80=98Enterprise=E2=80=99 in the layers! Geek c= red squared! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Jon Hales >>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2023 11:32 AM >>>> *To:* Sid Jones >>>> *Cc:* craig@sbc-85.com ; Mattis Lind >>>> *Subject:* Re: intellec 8 >>>> >>>> Hi Sid, copied to Mattis and Craig >>>> >>>> Many thanks for your message. You are in a fortunate position to have = a >>>> 4/40. >>>> >>>> I was planning to write to you and Mattis, copied to Craig, to explain >>>> (briefly) where I'm coming from. >>>> >>>> About ten years ago I was looking for a 386 CPU and found an eBay >>>> seller in UK offering an Intel Multibus board containing a 386 and 387= for >>>> about the amount I had expected to pay for the CPU. Fast forward to ab= out >>>> 2020, when I bought a 386 board from Northwest Technical, which came w= ith a >>>> set of original ROMs and a copy of the manual. I was able to get the >>>> original board working by copying the ROMs. Along the way I had collec= ted >>>> several Intel Model 310 86/286 systems running Xenix and iRMX-86. >>>> >>>> I realise that Mattis was even more fortunate in buying a Intellec 8/8= 0 >>>> for about the amount I paid for the 386 board. >>>> >>>> Around seven years ago I started volunteering at the Centre for >>>> Computing History in Cambridge (developing an archive of magnetic medi= a, >>>> which no-one else seemed interested in preserving; I live near Cambrid= ge). >>>> The museum already had an Intellec 8/80. I collected another 8/80 from= a >>>> donor who had stored a quantity of Intel development systems after the= y >>>> were scrapped by his employer. This gave me an opportunity to partiall= y >>>> dismantle it (for cleaning and inspection) and photograph the boards a= nd >>>> PSUs before it went to the museum. More recently, I photographed the b= oards >>>> and chassis of the museum's 8/80 to copy the images to Craig. The PROM >>>> board had been adapted to 2716s. >>>> >>>> The Cambridge museum has a fully-operational Apple 1 reproduction. A >>>> friend of the museum populated the board with period-correct chips as = well >>>> as the PSU and adding a tape interface. I donated a Hitachi mono monit= or to >>>> provide a display. This is a permanent exhibit, alongside an Altair 88= 00, >>>> an 8800b and an Imsai 8080. Unlike the Intellec 8/80s, although they h= ave >>>> (at least) comparable historical significance, which remain in storage= . >>>> This is the background to propose an Intellec 8/80 reproduction system= for >>>> the museum. >>>> >>>> Craig's initiative is an opportunity not-to-be-missed to acquire the >>>> basis of a reproduction Intellec. As a 'data specialist', my understan= ding >>>> of electronics is basic. However, I have had a good deal of success at >>>> building up useful systems from bare boards. I would be ready to organ= ise >>>> orders from JLCPCB, with which I have an account. >>>> >>>> Craig and I have been in contact for some time via an 'email group' >>>> called Intel Devsys on Google Groups. This developed from the efforts = of >>>> Bill Beech, Richard Main and Herb Johnson (and others) to support effo= rts >>>> to get MDS systems working. There are now some members of the group in= UK. >>>> I have contributed disk images, based partly on the museum's collectio= n, >>>> and scans of various Intel documents. Mark Ogden (ogdenpm on Github) h= as >>>> done much to organise the collection of software and manuals. Although= the >>>> emphasis has been mainly on Series II MDS systems, it would appear a g= ood >>>> approach to suggest you both join this group. As well as providing sup= port >>>> to each other, the group has been successful at bringing together >>>> information on Bill Beech's Google Drive. >>>> >>>> Sid: I know someone who built himself a Martin Eberhard programmer for >>>> 1702s. I could put you in touch with him if you want an easy way to ge= t >>>> code into these chips. (I know, it would be better to do this via an >>>> Intellec or a iUP-103 Universal Programmer with the appropriate interf= ace - >>>> I have an iUP-103, but it's only equipped for 2716s). >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 10:34, Sid Jones >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks for the update! >>>>> >>>>> FYI: I=E2=80=99m refurbishing an intel intellec 4/40 that I used in c= ollege >>>>> between 1974-1977. >>>>> >>>>> And the mission creep sets in, so I have to build a RS232-20 mA >>>>> current loop interface and a 1702A EPROM programmer. >>>>> >>>>> Use a 2372A board with flying leads to drop into the ROM monitor >>>>> socket, to get over the bit rot in the original 1702A devices until I= can >>>>> programme some more!. >>>>> >>>>> BTW: I have a source of 1702A =E2=80=98new, old stock=E2=80=99 EPROMs= in Sweden. A >>>>> nice gentleman called Bjorn Lundin has a stash of 500+ !!! >>>>> >>>>> This will be after the case has been cleaned, de-bent and repainted. >>>>> Small accident in the 1990=E2=80=99s involving a weak shelf and gravi= ty... >>>>> >>>>> I do have a spare set of 4040/4289(?) and 4201 devices from the uni >>>>> project and after being inspired by Craig=E2=80=99s work, I=E2=80=99m= giving some thought >>>>> to a =E2=80=98new=E2=80=99 CPU board for the 4040. >>>>> >>>>> Replace the 4x1702A with a 2732A, modern logic rather than the >>>>> electron guzzling 3205 and other devices, socket everything and make = a new >>>>> drop-in board for my intel box. >>>>> >>>>> Madness, or what? >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Sid >>>>> >>>>> *From:* craig@sbc-85.com >>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 29, 2023 11:25 PM >>>>> *To:* 'Jon Hales' ; 'Mattis Lind' >>>>> ; 'Sid Jones' >>>>> *Subject:* intellec 8 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Jon, Mattis, & Sid >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I am not sure you are all aware of each other yet=E2=80=A6 but I thin= k >>>>> everyone has some level of interest in making one or more of the >>>>> reproduction boards for the intellect and, since you are somewhat clo= se >>>>> together, it may make sense to order boards directly from the board h= ouse >>>>> and redistribute amongst yourselves. Sid and Jon are in the UK, Matt= is is >>>>> in Sweden=E2=80=94two of my favorite countries to visit by the way. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As for the boards, I have been distracted lately but hope to get back >>>>> to get them fully tested. the PROM, RAM, Motherboard, and 8008 CPU a= ll >>>>> look OK, I need to build and test the 8080 CPU and a simple card exte= nder >>>>> board. I haven=E2=80=99t even started a front panel board or either = of the I/O >>>>> boards and have no intention yet to make the eprom programming board.= I >>>>> expect the remaining boards may continue to drag out, or maybe someon= e else >>>>> will decide to make them before me. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If Sid and Mattis have not joined the intel development google group, >>>>> that remains to be the most centralized and deepest well of informati= on. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> regards to all, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> craig >>>>> >>>> --00000000000004563905f44b0874 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mattis

Co= ngratulations. I'd like to buy one. If Sid is also wanting one, I sugge= st you mail both boards to one of us and we sort out postage in UK.

I think I have the socket alrea= dy, but need to check the pin spacing.

So, when you work out the cost of shipping to UK, please che= ck it would allow for two boards.

Regards=C2=A0

= Jon

On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, 20:34 Sid Jones, <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk> wrote:
I could be very tempted...
=C2=A0
What might the shipping cost be, please?
=C2=A0
I=E2=80=99m in the UK.
=C2=A0
I will take a look at the lines and check the differences.
=C2=A0
(And where did you get the socket? Did it require a bit of pin persuas= ion=20 to connect to the board?)
=C2=A0
Regards
=C2=A0
Sid
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2023 7:48 PM
To: SBC-85
Subject: Re: intellec 8
=C2=A0
= Hello!=20
=C2=A0
I designed my own extender and it arrived today so I spent som time=20 soldering and testing it. It looks like it works fine. But it is hard to te= ll=20 for sure since my Intellec has some kind of trouble with the front panel. I= t=20 behaves exactly as before though. It is just HASL. Not ENIG. 2um ENIG was q= uite=20 a lot more expensive and I wasn=E2=80=99t intending to use it that much so = I stayed at=20 HASL.
=C2=A0
I have four more bare boards if anyone likes one.=C2=A0 They are 10 eu= ros=20 plus shipping to cover my actual costs.
=C2=A0
/Mattis


torsdag 2 februari 2023 skrev SBC-85 <craig@sbc-85.com>= ;:
The backplane for the intellec 4/40 and the 8/80 are dif= ferent,=20 but to my knowledge the cards are the same dimensions.=C2=A0 a straight= =20 through extension card should be fine, but if the 8/80 doubled up (front/= back)=20 voltage rails like the +/- 12V are shorted together on the front/back, th= at=20 would cause problems in the 4/40 where those lines are signals
=C2=A0
While I made the power traces wider, I did not short and= solder=20 side / component side traces together except possibly the ground (which I= =20 think is the same on the 4/40 and 8/80 backplane.
=C2=A0
I hope to get back to my intellec boards over the weeken= d=20 (depending on the weather).
=C2=A0
Regards
=C2=A0
Craig

On Feb 1, 2023, at 1:13 AM, Sid Jones <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk>=20 wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20
Yup, money ain=E2=80=99t what it used to be...
=C2=A0
I purchased a new Series III in 1981 for about =C2=A315,000 then. = (It=E2=80=99s=20 still in my garage. Still waiting for it to earn its value back..)
=C2=A0
(But it did help pay for a slightly cheaper Porsche 944 in 1982!)<= /div>
=C2=A0
I wonder if the intellecs used the same basic bus for 8 and 4 bit.= ..=20 And extender would not need to know the actual signals. Just the connec= tor=20 and depth?
=C2=A0
Regards
=C2=A0
Sid
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
From: Jon Hales
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2023 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: intellec 8
=C2=A0
Hi Mattis, cc Sid and Craig.=20
=C2=A0
I was already familiar with the story about your Intellec 8/80. Th= e=20 story is, as we say, 'the stuff of legends'. It's hard to i= magine it would=20 happen these days. In a recent VCF Forum discussion, Herb Johnson menti= oned=20 that your Monitor code is version 4.0 and that he and Bill Beech are wo= rking=20 on disassembly. The discussion is under 'Pre-Altair' and was st= arted by=20 Roland Huisman some years ago.
=C2=A0
On the topic of what value we have attached to money at different= =20 times, my wife and I bought our first house in UK in 1978. In that year= , the=20 same amount of GB Pounds (same as the price of a small house for a fami= ly)=20 could have bought a basic-specification MDS Series-II. This comes from = a=20 copy of Intel's 1978 price lists.
=C2=A0
A design for a bus extender would be helpful for anyone dealing wi= th=20 Intellec systems. This is particularly relevant given the Intellec back= plane=20 slots have specific functions, so the boards cannot be moved around to = allow=20 signals to be probed. I'm aware that S-100 slots have different ass= ignments=20 for the 2 x 50 contacts, but wouldn't an S-100 extender have some= =20 potential?
=C2=A0
I have a third-party (Xentek) Multibus I extender board that was= =20 (intended to be) fitted with relays and switches to enable or disable p= ower=20 to the board under test, as well as some multi-LED displays to provide = a=20 visual indication of activity - although I should emphasise that I have= just=20 the bare board with no documentation and no components with which to=20 populate it. Given the capacity of today's test equipment perhaps i= t's not=20 of any practical benefit, but I found it interesting to think about the= =20 potential of an 'advanced' bus extender.
=C2=A0
As I mentioned briefly, I have detailed photos of two Intellec 8/8= 0s,=20 access to some documentation including schematic drawings and dumps of= =20 EPROMs (from only one 8/80 and in that case held in two 2716s). Would t= here=20 be any value in my placing these items on my Google Drive for a week or= =20 two?
=C2=A0
What I don't have is software for the Intellecs. I have tried = to locate=20 the Intel InSite library of routines, but with no success.
=C2=A0
Enough for now.
=C2=A0
All the best
=C2=A0
Jon
=C2=A0
On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 at 09:26, Mat= tis Lind=20 <mattislind@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello everyone!=20
=C2=A0
A short introduction:
=C2=A0
My name is Mattis Lind, I live in Sweden and have an interest in= old=20 computers. My collection of various vintage computers can be seen on = = www.datormuseum.se,=20 unfortunately not updated for quite some time.
Almost 30 years ago I bought an Intellec 8/80 on a flea-market i= n=20 Stockholm for the equivalent of 10 USD. It has been sitting on the sh= elf=20 since then and just recently I thought I should do something about it= . My=20 plan is to connect it to a teletype and perhaps run BASIC or MicroChe= ss=20 just for fun.
=C2=A0
The Intellec was torn down into pieces and cleaned. Then I start= ed to=20 test the PSUs. The crowbar of the 5V PSU was set to trip at almost 9V= so I=20 adjusted it down to a more reasonable level. Then I also found that t= he 5V=20 supply itself didn't regulate at all. After some head scratching = I=20 discovered that the driver transistor was leaky. With a new power=20 transistor in place it regulated fine. I put everything together and = tried=20 the machine with boards installed.
=C2=A0
The front panel was acting strangely. Under certain conditions I= =20 could enter data into memory and examine it, but it didn't work a= s was=20 indicated in the manual. At one point it was possible to single step = a one=20 instruction program that jumped back to itself. I checked the front= =C2=A0=20 panel itself. It looked like at least all switches and LEDs were work= ing=20 but it looked like there was some logic on the front panel controller= in=20 the bus that wasn't doing what it was supposed to. To get access = to do=20 measurements on the=C2=A0 board I needed an extender board.
=C2=A0
My idea was to quickly draw one up in KiCAD. I have done quite m= any=20 layouts in KiCAD so I wasn't expecting it to take that long. But = one=20 obstacle is to get the proper measurements of the size of boards and= =20 connectors, it takes some time to get this right and it is easy to ma= ke=20 mistakes.
=C2=A0
I did some googling on Intellec and found the interesting pages = by=20 Craig. So I contacted him on the subject of KiCAD layout for the Inte= llec=20 sized PCBs.
=C2=A0
So this is the reason for ending up here!
=C2=A0
BTW I also have an Eberhard 1702 programmer and I also had probl= ems=20 with some 1702 chips. But this is my only 1702 programmer so I cannot= =20 compare it with others. I thought the EPROM was marginal.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
/Mattis
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Den m=C3=A5n 30 jan. 2023 kl 14= :15 skrev Sid=20 Jones <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk>:
Thanks for the email, Jon.
=C2=A0
My intellec 4 mod 40 (S/N 027!) is getting a ground up=20 refurbishment, due to having dropped off a shelf a decade or two=20 ago...
=C2=A0
I=E2=80=99m building a high-speed tape reader simulator and I = really fancy=20 a crack at a home-brew 1702A programmer.
=C2=A0
(Stealing from the best, of course...)
=C2=A0
What I=E2=80=99m really missing is the paper tape RAM based as= sembler that=20 came with the box. Should have kept a copy of the tape when I left= =20 college!
=C2=A0
Regarding the MDS systems, I=E2=80=99ve got a MDS-800 box, no = terminal, no=20 floppy drives, but I do have a Series III and a white Series II tha= t I=20 was going to use for spares. With drives.
=C2=A0
And a stack of floppies =E2=80=98obtained=E2=80=99 from variou= s clients. And the=20 odd intel manual or three..
=C2=A0
Perhaps it=E2=80=99ll be time for a visit to sunny Cambridge s= ometime=20 soon?
=C2=A0
And how do I join the Google group, please? These new-fangled= =20 =E2=80=98social media=E2=80=99 malarkey can get past me...
=C2=A0
Regards
=C2=A0
Sid
=C2=A0
PS 70th birthday present (to myself) pictured! Rockwell Echo= =20 cancelling chip with Star Trek =E2=80=98Enterprise=E2=80=99 in the = layers! Geek cred=20 squared!
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
From: Jon Hales
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 11:32 AM
To: = Sid Jones=20
Subject: Re: intellec 8
=C2=A0
Hi Sid, copied to Mattis and Craig=20
=C2=A0
Many thanks for your message. You are in a fortunate position = to=20 have a 4/40.
=C2=A0
I was planning to write to you and Mattis, copied to Craig, to= =20 explain (briefly) where I'm coming from.
=C2=A0
About ten years ago I was looking for a 386 CPU and found an e= Bay=20 seller in UK offering an Intel Multibus board containing a 386 and = 387=20 for about the amount I had expected to pay for the CPU. Fast forwar= d to=20 about 2020, when I bought a 386 board from Northwest Technical, whi= ch=20 came with a set of original=C2=A0 ROMs and a copy of the manual. I = was=20 able to get the original board working by copying the ROMs. Along t= he=20 way I had collected several Intel Model 310 86/286 systems running = Xenix=20 and iRMX-86.
=C2=A0
I realise that Mattis was even more fortunate in buying a Inte= llec=20 8/80 for about the amount I paid for the 386 board.
=C2=A0
Around seven years ago I started volunteering at the Centre fo= r=20 Computing History in Cambridge (developing an archive of magnetic m= edia,=20 which no-one else seemed interested in preserving; I live near=20 Cambridge). The museum already had an Intellec 8/80. I collected an= other=20 8/80 from a donor who had stored a quantity of Intel development sy= stems=20 after they were scrapped by his employer. This gave me an opportuni= ty to=20 partially dismantle it (for cleaning and inspection) and photograph= the=20 boards and PSUs before it went to the museum. More recently, I=20 photographed the boards and chassis of the museum's 8/80 to cop= y the=20 images to Craig. The PROM board had been adapted to 2716s.
=C2=A0
The Cambridge museum has a fully-operational Apple 1 reproduct= ion.=20 A friend of the museum populated the board with period-correct chip= s as=20 well as the PSU and adding a tape interface. I donated a Hitachi mo= no=20 monitor to provide a display. This is a permanent exhibit, alongsid= e an=20 Altair 8800, an 8800b and an Imsai 8080. Unlike the Intellec 8/80s,= =20 although they have (at least) comparable historical significance, w= hich=20 remain in storage. This is the background to propose an Intellec 8/= 80=20 reproduction system for the museum.
=C2=A0
Craig's initiative is an opportunity not-to-be-missed to a= cquire=20 the basis of a reproduction Intellec. As a 'data specialist'= ;, my=20 understanding of electronics is basic. However, I have had a good d= eal=20 of success at building up useful systems from bare boards. I would = be=20 ready to organise orders from JLCPCB, with which I have an=20 account.
=C2=A0
Craig and I have been in contact for some time via an 'ema= il group'=20 called Intel Devsys on Google Groups. This developed from the effor= ts of=20 Bill Beech, Richard Main and Herb Johnson (and others) to support= =20 efforts to get MDS systems working. There are now some members of t= he=20 group in UK. I have contributed disk images, based partly on the=20 museum's collection, and scans of various Intel documents. Mark= Ogden=20 (ogdenpm on Github) has done much to organise the collection of sof= tware=20 and manuals. Although the emphasis has been mainly on Series II MDS= =20 systems, it would appear a good approach to suggest you both join t= his=20 group. As well as providing support to each other, the group has be= en=20 successful at bringing together information on Bill Beech's Goo= gle=20 Drive.
=C2=A0
Sid: I know someone who built himself a Martin Eberhard progra= mmer=20 for 1702s. I could put you in touch with him if you want an easy wa= y to=20 get code into these chips. (I know, it would be better to do this v= ia an=20 Intellec or a iUP-103 Universal Programmer with the appropriate=20 interface - I have an iUP-103, but it's only equipped for 2716s= ).
=C2=A0
Best regards
=C2=A0
Jon
=C2=A0
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 10:34,= Sid Jones=20 <jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk>=20 wrote:
Thanks for the update!
=C2=A0
FYI: I=E2=80=99m refurbishing an intel intellec 4/40 that I = used in=20 college between 1974-1977.
=C2=A0
And the mission creep sets in, so I have to build a RS232-20= mA=20 current loop interface and a 1702A EPROM programmer.
=C2=A0
Use a 2372A board with flying leads to drop into the ROM mon= itor=20 socket, to get over the bit rot in the original 1702A devices unt= il I=20 can programme some more!.
=C2=A0
BTW: I have a source of 1702A =E2=80=98new, old stock=E2=80= =99 EPROMs in Sweden.=20 A nice gentleman called Bjorn Lundin has a stash of 500+ !!!
=C2=A0
This will be after the case has been cleaned, de-bent and=20 repainted. Small accident in the 1990=E2=80=99s involving a weak = shelf and=20 gravity...
=C2=A0
I do have a spare set of 4040/4289(?) and 4201 devices from = the=20 uni project and after being inspired by Craig=E2=80=99s work, I= =E2=80=99m giving some=20 thought to a =E2=80=98new=E2=80=99 CPU board for the 4040.
=C2=A0
Replace the 4x1702A with a 2732A, modern logic rather than t= he=20 electron guzzling 3205 and other devices, socket everything and m= ake a=20 new drop-in board for my intel box.
=C2=A0
Madness, or what?
=C2=A0
Regards
=C2=A0
Sid
=C2=A0
From: craig@sbc-85.com= =20
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2023 11:25 PM
Subject: intellec 8
=C2=A0

Hi Jon, Mattis, & Sid

=C2=A0

I am not sure you are all aware of each ot= her yet=E2=80=A6=20 but I think everyone has some level of interest in making one or = more=20 of the reproduction boards for the intellect and, since you are= =20 somewhat close together, it may make sense to order boards direct= ly=20 from the board house and redistribute amongst yourselves.=C2=A0 S= id=20 and Jon are in the UK, Mattis is in Sweden=E2=80=94two of my favo= rite=20 countries to visit by the way.

=C2=A0

As for the boards, I have been distracted = lately=20 but hope to get back to get them fully tested.=C2=A0 the PROM, RA= M,=20 Motherboard, and 8008 CPU all look OK, I need to build and test t= he=20 8080 CPU and a simple card extender board.=C2=A0 I haven=E2=80=99= t even=20 started a front panel board or either of the I/O boards and have = no=20 intention yet to make the eprom programming board.=C2=A0 I expect= the=20 remaining boards may continue to drag out, or maybe someone else = will=20 decide to make them before me.

=C2=A0

If Sid and Mattis have not joined the inte= l=20 development google group, that remains to be the most centralized= and=20 deepest well of information.

=C2=A0

regards to all,

=C2=A0

craig

<= /div>
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